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Thread: London terror attack: Married police officer one of five killed

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    What is a 100 dead in a population of millions?

    Immigration can be controlled. Spread of cultures and ideology cannot. Here your exploit/s are - immoral lifestyles, disrespect of gendor roles, collapse of community, class rebellion.

    In the 50-60s, the leaders of the black population of US recognised the importance of Islam as a political ideology and it's use as a weapon against white christian america. Although, most black civilians of that era failed to absorb these teachings because they couldn't understand it(social politics), until now(globalisation). Blacks in the US have been embracing islam like never before. Globalisation did what malcolm and farrahkhan failed to do. Ali's eulogy - youtu.be/_fpiQJH8daA

    While the UK is not as clearly racially segregated as the US, the exploits exist none the less.
    What is a 100 dead in a population of millions?
    Its not the dying that’s the issue. It’s the manner.

    Immigration can be controlled.
    Sure, barbed wire, guard towers and minefields are a great deterrence

    Spread of cultures and ideology cannot.
    Freedom of information is a great facilitator. But it’s also something that is frowned upon in many nations.

    immoral lifestyles,
    Well boys and girls will be boys and girls, doing the things boys and girls find natural. Of course the girls could always be put in Purdah. Leaving both sexes extremely frustrated.

    disrespect of gendor roles
    Sexual equality is apparently hard for some people to accept. But then the same could be said for racial equality. Chauvinism is a hard nut to crack.

    collapse of community,
    What community? What collapse?

    class rebellion.
    Class warfare? Sounds like something from a communist or socialist manifesto. If so, then I hate to tell you that it’s dead and gone. Just check the compost heaps of the former USSR. Plenty of bronze and granite icons of proponents of that failed ideology to be found there
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSiddius View Post
    Aren't you cherry picking his comment here? Look at the context and the intent. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that big cities like London or NY are a big and juicy target for terrorists, and people living in these cities need to be more vigilant. As for his words vs his actions I'm not sure any amount of preparedness can protect a city from these kinds of lone wolf attacks. You can hardly ban cars.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hin-four-years

    But that was not my point.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  3. #18
    Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    I think the person who said "the converts are the worst" was referring to christians at the time.
    Alas quite accurate!

    Witnessing an Islamification of muslim communities which had actually started to integrate into British life some 30 years ago, is deeply worrying. Sadly we were asleep when the Wahabi sect began its colonisation in the North and Midlands etc.

  4. #19
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Not even close! Try again.

  5. #20
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amled View Post
    Good old insanity comes to mind.
    above post is a reponce to your statement. "Not even close! Try again"

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryajet View Post
    above post is a reponce to your statement. "Not even close! Try again"
    I would have thought insanity would be sufficient, but all right then!
    Add to a deranged homicidal mind, a smidgeon or dollop of religious or political fanaticism.
    Well then you’ll have someone capable of plowing a car or truck into a crowd containing women and children, or piloting an aircraft filled with passengers into a high rise apartment building.
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

  7. #22
    Contributor DarthSiddius's Avatar
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    I don't think it's insanity. We as a species have a remarkable ability to be conditioned to wholeheartedly believe in fictitious concepts. This has historically been an extremely advantageous trait for us as a species. It allows us to form large groups of people with similar beliefs who amalgamate together to achieve great things. For example, there is no other animal that can come up with concepts such as nations or corporations which are for all intents and purposes imaginary in nature (as in you need to believe in them for them to exist) and are only applicable to humans. Apes, our closest cousins in the animal kingdom, have a very rudimentary concept of clans/tribes but that is no where near the scale of what the humans can contrive.

    One downside of this is that we can be conditioned to believe anything given the right environment, nefarious goals included. Religion being the motivator for the terrorist grunt here while political power for their handlers.

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSiddius View Post
    I don't think it's insanity. We as a species have a remarkable ability to be conditioned to wholeheartedly believe in fictitious concepts. This has historically been an extremely advantageous trait for us as a species. It allows us to form large groups of people with similar beliefs who amalgamate together to achieve great things. For example, there is no other animal that can come up with concepts such as nations or corporations which are for all intents and purposes imaginary in nature (as in you need to believe in them for them to exist) and are only applicable to humans. Apes, our closest cousins in the animal kingdom, have a very rudimentary concept of clans/tribes but that is no where near the scale of what the humans can contrive.

    One downside of this is that we can be conditioned to believe anything given the right environment, nefarious goals included. Religion being the motivator for the terrorist grunt here while political power for their handlers.
    You may be right.
    And yet Breivik up in Norway went before an panel of learned experts who found him sane. This despite his slaughter of 77 people, mostly young teenagers. Not in a wild shooting spree, but coldly and remorselessly chasing them down and executing them one by one.
    It may be that what these learned persons need is to tweek the term "insanity"
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

  9. #24
    Contributor DarthSiddius's Avatar
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    Perhaps instead of tweaking the definition of insanity we should learn to accept that a person, in a sound frame of mind, is capable of committing horrendous acts if he/she chooses to do so.

  10. #25
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    I think the consensus as per legally insane is the individual has to be aware of their actions and consequences. Breivek clearly was aware of both.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  11. #26
    Contributor DarthSiddius's Avatar
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    Which makes a lot of sense from the court's perspective.

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSiddius View Post
    Which makes a lot of sense from the court's perspective.
    Then Dickens had the right of it, when he wrote, "...then the law's an ass!"
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amled View Post
    It may be that what these learned persons need is to tweek the term "insanity"
    There's a difference between insanity and the various forms of anti-social personality disorders recognized by the psychiatric profession. Sufferers of the former can't discern the difference between reality and 'fiction' in certain circumstances for certain periods of time, the latter can but simply don't give a shit.

    Breivik knew exactly what he was doing at the time he did it - he wanted to draw attention to a 'cause' he believed in. The fact that no-one else in Norway had the slightest interest in flocking to that cause is irrelevant (from his perspective). To paraphrase the great Harry Callahan, Breivik is a 'legend in his own mind'.
    Last edited by Monash; 30 Mar 17, at 12:47.

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    There's a difference between insanity and the various forms of anti-social personality disorders recognized by the psychiatric profession. Sufferers of the former can't discern the difference between reality and 'fiction' in certain circumstances for certain periods of time, the latter can but simply don't give a shit.

    Breivik knew exactly what he was doing at the time he did it - he wanted to draw attention to a 'cause' he believed in. The fact that no-one else in Norway had the slightest interest in flocking to that cause is irrelevant (from his perspective). To paraphrase the great Harry Callahan, Breivik is a 'legend in his own mind'.
    The “I don’t give a shit!” school of thought would; I would think, in the consensus of most “normal” people, be archetypical of a sociopath.
    Also, take two of the latter cases of “terrorist” attacks.
    In London an man attempts to attack the heavily guarded British Parliament, armed with a knife and car. At an equally heavily guarded Orly Airport, a man; hopped up on hash and booze, tries to grab a firearm from an armed soldier, and is shot dead by her mates.
    In both cases, there was a time when their actions would be written off as the actions of nut cases. Yet in these times, and because they had wrapped themselves in a thin patina of religion, their actions are now the result of their religious extremism.


    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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