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Thread: Reduction in migration numbers is a British tragedy

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Reduction in migration numbers is a British tragedy

    Tragic

    The reduction in migration numbers is a British tragedy


    Ian Dunt

    Politics.co.uk23 February 2017

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/the-reduct...143402670.html




    The migration numbers are coming down. Everyone is seemingly very happy about it. Anti-immigration figures are happy about it. The people who privately support immigration but feel they have to ‘respect the views on the doorstep’ are happy about it. The prime minister, who prioritises the reduction of immigration above all other concerns, is happy about it. In a profoundly divided country, you would be hard pushed to find an issue on which everyone is so united. Immigration figures must come down.

    This is the first glimpse of success for the reduce-migration-at-all-costs campaign. Sure, a record number of Romanians and Bulgarians came. Sure, the figures overall are not statistically significant. But they do constitute, for the first time in four years, a decline in the annual numbers. The referendum appears to be an important factor. In the immediate wake of the decision, there was a 12,000 increase in Poles and other eastern Europeans going home compared to the year before. An extra 11,000 people from outside the EU also left. Fewer people chose to come here, including 41,000 international students, mostly from outside the EU.

    It is perfectly likely that we are seeing the start of a decline in migration as a result of Brexit. Certainly that is what most people in the media and even government are saying. It is not an unreasonable conclusion to come to. What’s unreasonable is their happiness over it.


    TV viewers overseas saw the reports about racial and xenophobic abuse in Britain on the news. Many decided it was not the place they were told it was. It wasn’t somewhere tolerant and peaceful and orderly, where you would not be judged for your race or your caste or your religion. It wasn’t somewhere where you could work hard, struggling by on a pittance, but maybe eventually be able to buy a shop, be able to send your children to university and watch them become doctors or lawyers. Maybe it wasn’t a country of opportunity at all. Maybe it was somewhere dangerous, where you would not be welcome, because of your accent, or the colour of your skin, or your religion.

    The experience was more emotional for those who were already here. Most of the Europeans I know still burn with fury over what has happened: Poles, Czechs, Germans, French, Spanish, Italian. People who came and contributed and felt at home here. And now suddenly home is not home.

    It is hardest for the eastern Europeans, of course. They know the British people are not angry about having too many German architects. They know that so much of this is targeted at them. People who came here and worked, who played by the rules, who were as similar to the English as you’re likely to get. Some saw the violence and abuse on the streets. Some did not but they heard about it.



    Others avoided the more pernicious elements of what happened. They simply felt the rejection. Europeans who had lived here for decades, suddenly feeling unwanted in their home. People who had thought highly of the English, of the deep sense of fair play and stability that England provides, now suddenly uncertain of the nature of the country and their place in it. When they sent off applications for permanent residence, to which they were perfectly entitled, they often received a Home Office response suggesting they prepare to leave – something which happened regularly enough for it to look more like conspiracy than cock-up. Others were given impenetrable forms, running for dozens of pages, demanding they cite every holiday over years. Others were suddenly embroiled in rows about whether NHS use counted as health insurance.



    The Home Office hadn’t set up a system to help them, despite being perfectly aware of the tidal wave of requests which were likely to come their way. The inadequacy of the official response confirmed the sense that the authorities viewed them as a problem, not an asset. And at the top level, ministers played with their lives as if they were pieces on a chess board. Liam Fox called them one of our “main cards” in Brexit negotiations. Theresa May refused to offer them assurances.

    So now the numbers are declining and we’re supposed to be happy about it. Happy that people have seen violence and abuse on our streets and decided not to come, happy that people have felt uncomfortable and rejected by a country they have lived in for years.

    I’m not happy about it. Those figures constitute workers who will not contribute to Britain’s economy, who will not set up a company, or become a doctor, or oversee a research project, or take a risk on a shop, or open a restaurant, or fall in love here, or make friends here, or bring their food and music here – or, yes, work in labouring, or fruit picking, or social care, or many of the other seemingly menial jobs which allow them to start saving and send money home and do the jobs people need doing .

    And this country won’t be able to have an impact on them. It won’t bring to their lives the unique things which Britain provides, the ways in which it makes people more restrained and more accepting, the liberating sense of stability it provides, the balance between social and individual rights, the engrained suspicion of the state, the wariness of absolute thought in politics or religion, the sense of irony, and privacy, and mutual respect. It will not be able to continue improving a world it has retreated from.

    All these things will be lost, because we must reduce immigrant numbers at all costs. The great vision of Britain which had been growing for the last few decades, of a country which could show the world how to be open and successful, is fading away. And now the immigrant numbers are starting to come down. We are increasingly seen as hard and insular and prejudiced. And we’re meant to celebrate it.

    Ian Dunt is the editor of Politics.co.uk. His book - Brexit: What The Hell Happens Now? - is out now from Canbury Press.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Tragic
    I'm not happy about it either. Some of my close friends have already left over this and a couple more are in the process of doing so.

    Not planning on sticking around myself either.

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    Can someone explain to me the massive number of British that have migrated to New Zealand over the last 15 years? 10 years ago applications were at 2000 per month. 5 years ago it was 10,000. Now with Brexit it's closer to 15,000.
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    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Can someone explain to me the massive number of British that have migrated to New Zealand over the last 15 years? 10 years ago applications were at 2000 per month. 5 years ago it was 10,000. Now with Brexit it's closer to 15,000.
    It gives them backdoor entry to Oz once they naturalize?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Can someone explain to me the massive number of British that have migrated to New Zealand over the last 15 years? 10 years ago applications were at 2000 per month. 5 years ago it was 10,000. Now with Brexit it's closer to 15,000.

    What's the mystery? New Zealands a beautiful country from top to bottom... similiar culture, friendly people, high standard of living. Flights out there have been getting cheaper and cheaper for the last 15 years so that makes it easier. The UK's great too, you can make a lot of money here, but it's a high stress place. I read something saying on average we simultaneously have the most expensive and the smallest houses in Europe. I think it's a dream for a lot of Brits to go out there and live a more pleasant, slower pace of life.

    I considered it years ago after trip there, but it was just too far from family in the end.

    I believe you even have your own brand new continent now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    It gives them backdoor entry to Oz once they naturalize?
    It doesn't get them any of the welfare as NZ citizens in Aus. They, as we, have to pay full medical etc, no matter how long they live there. No dole, no pensions, no health care. It's better for them to migrate direct to Aus, they have a much better chance of being accepted.
    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    What's the mystery? New Zealands a beautiful country from top to bottom... similiar culture, friendly people, high standard of living. Flights out there have been getting cheaper and cheaper for the last 15 years so that makes it easier. The UK's great too, you can make a lot of money here, but it's a high stress place. I read something saying on average we simultaneously have the most expensive and the smallest houses in Europe. I think it's a dream for a lot of Brits to go out there and live a more pleasant, slower pace of life.

    I considered it years ago after trip there, but it was just too far from family in the end.

    I believe you even have your own brand new continent now!
    My point though is the OpEd is bemoaning the loss of low skill, low paid workers from central Europe whereas your major flight is high end educated workers and this has increased with Brexit.
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    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    With France on the verge of frexit if M,Penn gets in , my my she upset some people refusing to wear a headscarf ? but yes the Frogs will be hopping over in vast numbers methinks , hey zara if your looking for a slow easy pace of life you only have to cross the border or stay where you are , when we were stationed in Lurgan i found the life style there wonderful , slow n easy , shame about the troubles tho , a lovely country all round .

    As for immigration down here i wont pay much attention to what the BBC is sprouting . But below are some more figures
    .


    More EU migrants came to UK than from all other nations combined after Brexit vote, figures show for first time

    Protesters and migrant workers wave flags as they demonstrate outside Parliament on February 20, 2017 in London,

    Steven Swinford, deputy political editor
    23 FEBRUARY 2017 • 10:36AM
    More migrants came to Britain from the European Union than from all other countries combined for the first time in the wake of the Brexit vote, official figures have disclosed.


    While overall net migration of EU migrants fell slightly to 165,000 in the year to September, net migration of non-EU migrants fell by more than 28,000 to 164,000 after a significant decline in the number of foreign students.

    The number of migrants from Romania and Bulgaria rose by 19,000 to 74,000 in the year to September 2016, the first official data since the referendum.

    Watch | EU migrants overtake all others for the first time
    01:23
    Nicola White, head of International Migration Statistics at the ONS, said: “Although net migration in the year to September 2016 has not seen a statistically significant change, we have seen a statistically significant decrease in net migration among EU8 citizens and non-EU citizens from Africa, the Americas and Oceania.

    "This is the first release to contain long-term international migration estimates including three months of data following the EU referendum.


    Although we have seen a fall in net migration of EU8 citizens there have been continued increases in immigration from Romania and Bulgaria, so it is too early to say what effect the referendum result has had on long-term international migration.

    "There has been a statistically significant decrease in non-EU long-term students immigrating to the UK while a small increase was seen in the number of study visas issued. It is too early to tell if this is an indication of a long-term trend”.

    Britain has seen near record levels of EU migration


    Net long-term migration to the UK has fallen to its lowest level in more than two years, new figures have revealed.

    The measure - the difference between the numbers of people arriving and leaving the country - was estimated to be 273,000 in the year to the end of September.


    This was a fall of 49,000 on the previous 12 months, the lowest level recorded since the year to June 2014, and the first time net migration has dipped below 300,000 in two years.

    The figures, published by the Office for National Statistics, are the first to include several weeks after the EU referendum in June.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    I'm not happy about it either. Some of my close friends have already left over this and a couple more are in the process of doing so.

    Not planning on sticking around myself either.
    Controlled immigration is sensible. Surprises me how many Italians living in the UK think leaving the EU is a good thing to do.....They seem very concerned about the massive influx Italy has received. Europe just seems to be in collective denial about numbers or the type of immigration. Sweden for example has hidden it refugee problem from media attention and seems to think that by ignoring the organised crime, prostitution, drugs etc brought in by the immigrants that it will fix itself, Socialism I think they call it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    It doesn't get them any of the welfare as NZ citizens in Aus. They, as we, have to pay full medical etc, no matter how long they live there. No dole, no pensions, no health care. It's better for them to migrate direct to Aus, they have a much better chance of being accepted.
    My point though is the OpEd is bemoaning the loss of low skill, low paid workers from central Europe whereas your major flight is high end educated workers and this has increased with Brexit.

    Could be the start of the Brexit brain drain I guess? The UK is already leaking high skill jobs to other EU capitals and New York.
    Would be interesting to see if Australia has had a similiar surge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    [B]With France on the verge of frexit if M,Penn gets in , my my she upset some people refusing to wear a headscarf ? but yes the Frogs will be hopping over in vast numbers methinks , hey zara if your looking for a slow easy pace of life you only have to cross the border or stay where you are , when we were stationed in Lurgan i found the life style there wonderful , slow n easy , shame about the troubles tho , a lovely country all round .
    I actually live in Manchester now, I grew up in Northern Ireland (near Derry), I do love it but we both decided we didn't want our kids growing up with the sectarianism there, thats why we moved to England.

    Still hopeful that both Le Pen and Wilders will lose!
    If the EU implodes, Zealandia will be looking pretty good!
    Last edited by zara; 26 Feb 17, at 01:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Controlled immigration is sensible. Surprises me how many Italians living in the UK think leaving the EU is a good thing to do.....They seem very concerned about the massive influx Italy has received. Europe just seems to be in collective denial about numbers or the type of immigration. Sweden for example has hidden it refugee problem from media attention and seems to think that by ignoring the organised crime, prostitution, drugs etc brought in by the immigrants that it will fix itself, Socialism I think they call it.
    whats your thoughts on David Davis statement about how it will take 'years and years' to bring immigration down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Could be the start of the Brexit brain drain I guess? The UK is already leaking high skill jobs to other EU capitals and New York.
    Would be interesting to see if Australia has had a similiar surge.
    You've had a serious brain drain for 15 years, replacing high knowledge workers generally indigenous to Britain with low knowledge service workers from Europe. Yes Brexit has exacerbated it but it was already happening and yes Australia is taking record numbers as is the rest of the commonwealth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    whats your thoughts on David Davis statement about how it will take 'years and years' to bring immigration down?
    In the area I'm familiar with he rightly said

    “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social-care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time. It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs. Don’t expect just because we’re changing who makes the decision on the policy, the door will suddenly shut – it won’t.”

    Bit obvious really, certainly in the hospitality sector British workers in the main are pretty useless, Most don't know how to give service. Which is why the jobs are taken by workers from Italy etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    In the area I'm familiar with he rightly said

    “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time. It will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs. Don’t expect just because we’re changing who makes the decision on the policy, the door will suddenly shut – it won’t.”

    Bit obvious really, certainly in the hospitality sector British workers in the main are pretty useless, Most don't know how to give service. Which is why the jobs are taken by workers from Italy etc
    So in the Brexiteer world view, who are we trying to get rid of? If not the low skilled agriculture and service sectors then who?
    The medical professionals? The IT workers?

    Or is it the builders, plumbers, electricians etc as they are the ones competing with working class jobs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    So in the Brexiteer world view, who are we trying to get rid of? If not the low skilled agriculture and service sectors then who?
    The medical professionals? The IT workers?

    Or is it the builders, plumbers, electricians etc as they are the ones competing with working class jobs?
    The vast majority of people who voted to leave the EU did so to regain control of our borders and our law making decisions. Clearly to stop Professional people and workers from coming here and adding to our economy is dumb. It's about numbers and controlling the flow, not to stop people completely. I thought you'd have realised that by now.
    You can't base your opinion on people who voted leave on a small group of xenophobes and racists within its ranks. I understand the fear of an extremist right wing, but I think its woefully ill founded.

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