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Thread: Reduction in migration numbers is a British tragedy

  1. #91
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    If only they could put all that left wing angst and negativity into something positive!

  2. #92
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    If only they could put all that left wing angst and negativity into something positive!
    It's a negative by default. The left on the axis that is
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  3. #93
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    It's a negative by default. The left on the axis that is
    lol, quite!

  4. #94
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    The British mind is a fickle one. We are often self-deprecating, mostly genuinely so, and don't give ourselves enough credit for our qualities. Unfortunately, when we do give ourselves credit, we turn into some sort of fascist arrogamus. It is vile. Please can we just go back to thinking less of ourselves. It worked better.

  5. #95
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    The British mind is a fickle one.
    The definition of Fickle is 'changes frequently, especially as regards one's loyalties or affections'. I'd say a resounding Bollox on that one!
    We are often self-deprecating,
    As are the Irish, in fact I'd say the Irish are better at it and funnier with it!

    mostly genuinely so,
    Why else would anybody be self deprecating Hier gruppenführer Marko?

    and don't give ourselves enough credit for our qualities.
    Oh really, I can easily compensate for that if you want!

    Unfortunately,
    s'pose it depends if you're interested or not

    when we do give ourselves credit,
    Steady on!

    we turn into some sort of fascist arrogamus.
    Such a sweeping generalisation, I was always told never to generalise

    It is vile.
    Exactly so don't go there

    Please can we just go back to thinking less of ourselves. It worked better.
    Incorrect, we need to think more about ourselves , more than ever actually. I'd firstly stop the over sea's aid budget and spend it on bombs and tanks and people to fire them. Trained people that can shoot accurately!
    Last edited by Toby; 24 Mar 17, at 01:04.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    A lot of effort went into the Düsseldorf's Brexit suicide float ....I wonder which EU department financed it???

    Strangely, its now on its way to the UK to help the British realise their mistake. They don't seem to realise it will have the opposite effect, lol
    Seems to be a lot of people in the 48% groups saying that they shouldn't use the float tomorrow in light of the attack on Wednesday..
    Last edited by zara; 24 Mar 17, at 15:22.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    The British mind is a fickle one. We are often self-deprecating, mostly genuinely so, and don't give ourselves enough credit for our qualities. Unfortunately, when we do give ourselves credit, we turn into some sort of fascist arrogamus. It is vile. Please can we just go back to thinking less of ourselves. It worked better.
    Not sure what your alluding to here, but if you mean 'Empire 2.0' and the the endless WW2 analogies, I agree. Some of the cabinet sound a lot more like DUP members than conservatives recently.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Incorrect, we need to think more about ourselves , more than ever actually. I'd firstly stop the over sea's aid budget and spend it on bombs and tanks and people to fire them. Trained people that can shoot accurately!
    As Gen Mattis in the US said in regard to hollowing the State Department etc if you do that I am going to need more guns. It is one thing to think more about oneself and another to do it stupidly. You're 'thinking about yourself' has now landed the UK in a constitutional impasse re a Second Scottish Independence Referendum - as many warned.

    To be quite honest this Sturgeon Lady is being highly cynical and there are clear none-senses in the time line she has suggested. For starters if she won a second referendum Scotland would be out of the EU and yet she proposes to have this referendum before the Article 50 exit negotiations are concluded so theoretically Scotland could leave the EU before the rest of the UK which is precisely what she is complaining about and the theoretical reason she cites as to why a second referendum should be held. Nor is it clear that the final deal will be acceptable to most of the population - two years is a long time. If is almost certain that no matter what 'final deal' the current Government comes back not everyone will be happy and it will of itself become a political football. If the Tories are being torn apart and might face obliteration in a subsequent election it is quite possible that a second referendum on the 'final deal' may result. You never know but the UK could remain more in than out while the Scots would be back at stage 1 of negotiating entry to the EU. So yea it is entirely cynical and doesn't make any real sense but the SNP is borderline national socialist of the nastier kind.

    Some may say - I believe tankie did - sod Scotland (or words to that effect) which in a way means sod the union. More "thinking about ourselves" perhaps. In my view this is facile thinking. You remember the 'Auld Alliance' the Scots had with the Frogs? For years after the personal union under the Stuarts (1603?) the French threat manifested itself via Ireland. Churchill wanted to go back into the Irish Republic for Atlantic bases in WW2 and to prevent the enemy exploiting the vacuum so to speak - only the most solemn of assurances (and gold) prevented it; there is a good reason the UK seeks to have good relations with the Irish Republic; it keeps potential enemies out and saves British lives and money. Now at a time when you desire to divorce England from all it's real and not so real allies on the continent to abandon the Union itself as well strikes me a mistake greater than any made before in the long history of English or British foreign policy since Harold Godwinson banished his brother Tostig into the open arms of Harald Hadrada. Again it is one thing to "think more about yourselves" but quite another to think stupidly.

    I hope some compromise can be reached with this cynical Scottish Lady or the facts of her position explained to the Scottish voters. Losing Scotland during the negotiations would seriously weaken the British hand and would involve you already in a two front diplomatic war in which it would be exceedingly difficult to get satisfaction from either side. I do not suppose any of these quite foreseeable problems occurred to the Brexiteers who were told another £350m per week would be spent on the NHS and it is regrettable that existing FCO 'worse case scenarios' were not aired publicly as they now threaten to come true; I do not blame Sir Ivan Rogers for resigning before the storm crows come home to roost. But then they do not want 'experts' and sadly in David Davis, Alan and Boris Johnson you do not have them. God save the Queen because her subjects and Ministers are making a concerted effort to end the realm.
    Last edited by snapper; 24 Mar 17, at 18:48.

  9. #99
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    As Gen Mattis in the US said in regard to hollowing the State Department etc if you do that I am going to need more guns. It is one thing to think more about oneself and another to do it stupidly. You're 'thinking about yourself' has now landed the UK in a constitutional impasse re a Second Scottish Independence Referendum - as many warned.

    To be quite honest this Sturgeon Lady is being highly cynical and there are clear none-senses in the time line she has suggested. For starters if she won a second referendum Scotland would be out of the EU and yet she proposes to have this referendum before the Article 50 exit negotiations are concluded so theoretically Scotland could leave the EU before the rest of the UK which is precisely what she is complaining about and the theoretical reason she cites as to why a second referendum should be held. Nor is it clear that the final deal will be acceptable to most of the population - two years is a long time. If is almost certain that no matter what 'final deal' the current Government comes back not everyone will be happy and it will of itself become a political football. If the Tories are being torn apart and might face obliteration in a subsequent election it is quite possible that a second referendum on the 'final deal' may result. You never know but the UK could remain more in than out while the Scots would be back at stage 1 of negotiating entry to the EU. So yea it is entirely cynical and doesn't make any real sense but the SNP is borderline national socialist of the nastier kind.

    Some may say - I believe tankie did - sod Scotland (or words to that effect) which in a way means sod the union. More "thinking about ourselves" perhaps. In my view this is facile thinking. You remember the 'Auld Alliance' the Scots had with the Frogs? For years after the personal union under the Stuarts (1603?) the French threat manifested itself via Ireland. Churchill wanted to go back into the Irish Republic for Atlantic bases in WW2 and to prevent the enemy exploiting the vacuum so to speak - only the most solemn of assurances (and gold) prevented it; there is a good reason the UK seeks to have good relations with the Irish Republic; it keeps potential enemies out and saves British lives and money. Now at a time when you desire to divorce England from all it's real and not so real allies on the continent to abandon the Union itself as well strikes me a mistake greater than any made before in the long history of English or British foreign policy since Harold Godwinson banished his brother Tostig into the open arms of Harald Hadrada. Again it is one thing to "think more about yourselves" but quite another to think stupidly.

    I hope some compromise can be reached with this cynical Scottish Lady or the facts of her position explained to the Scottish voters. Losing Scotland during the negotiations would seriously weaken the British hand and would involve you already in a two front diplomatic war in which it would be exceedingly difficult to get satisfaction from either side. I do not suppose any of these quite foreseeable problems occurred to the Brexiteers who were told another £350m per week would be spent on the NHS and it is regrettable that existing FCO 'worse case scenarios' were not aired publicly as they now threaten to come true; I do not blame Sir Ivan Rogers for resigning before the storm crows come home to roost. But then they do not want 'experts' and sadly in David Davis, Alan and Boris Johnson you do not have them. God save the Queen because her subjects and Ministers are making a concerted effort to end the realm.
    You didn't see the wink then? I was meaning to ask why the emoticons dont work on here and where is the old banner graphic?????

    As regards to your various points. I'm not in disagreement that we need freinds and trading partners and that the union is worth preserving. But all I hear is how much England needs everybody else. Not how much they need us. Its become a totally imbalanced debate if you think the EU etc wont continue to need our trade. The problem alot of these EU politicians have is they believe their own rhetoric. They can't see outside the box and how much the world has changed in the last 30 years...Far more business to be had outside the EU than there is in it long term. The EU is a failed concept and in collective denial, unfortunately its taken this little country to point that out.

    As a side note: Really looking forwards to the new Dunkirk movie where we get to relive the last catastrophic moment in British history.

  10. #100
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Seems to be a lot of people in the 48% groups saying that they shouldn't use the float tomorrow in light of the attack on Wednesday..
    and they didn't have the brains to realise it would have been an own goal otherwise?

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    Dusseldorf city council financed it. Just like they finance political floats every year. Not everything has to be some dark EU hand. God! the level of suspicion!
    You forgot the more interesting ones.

    Personally like these two:
    Name:  blonde.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  70.8 KB Name:  useful.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  55.9 KB
    ("Blonde is the new Brown" and "Our useful idiots")

  12. #102
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You forgot the more interesting ones.

    Personally like these two:
    Name:  blonde.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  70.8 KB Name:  useful.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  55.9 KB
    ("Blonde is the new Brown" and "Our useful idiots")
    Comparing Trump, Le pen and Wilders to Hitler, just goes to show how disturbed the left is...Like an alternative reality

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Comparing Trump, Le pen and Wilders to Hitler, just goes to show how disturbed the left is...Like an alternative reality
    Carnival is about the most conservative political organized happening in Germany. The artist got a couple hundred death threats for it btw.

    If you want Schubladendenken among German conservatives - there was also one this year that portrays Trump alongside Putin, Erdogan, Orban and Kaczinsky as bugs eating the innocent leaf of democracy. Or the statue of Liberty with "America Resist" painted on her holding up the chopped off head of Trump. Or Erdogan and the IS toasting each other with glasses filled with the blood of Kurds - though that was last year.

    I mean, by comparison you got away easy with an effigy of May shooting herself in Düsseldorf. Or the one i like better, i.e. May in a rubber boat titled Brexit giving the finger to the leaving EU ship while her boat is already half sunk ("Rule Britannia" from Mainz carnival).

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    As regards to your various points. I'm not in disagreement that we need freinds and trading partners and that the union is worth preserving. But all I hear is how much England needs everybody else. Not how much they need us. Its become a totally imbalanced debate if you think the EU etc wont continue to need our trade. The problem alot of these EU politicians have is they believe their own rhetoric. They can't see outside the box and how much the world has changed in the last 30 years...Far more business to be had outside the EU than there is in it long term. The EU is a failed concept and in collective denial, unfortunately its taken this little country to point that out.
    In regard to your points re the EU and it's many current failings - not least in regard to it's trade policies I fully agree. I understand that in the past there were "wine lakes" and "butter mountains" and though they are maybe gone much reform is required still. Sadly that reform is less likely without the UK. My points however were addressed toward British foreign policy rather than trade and the risks the UK is now taking that may bear bitter consequences in the future. I know these concerns are understood in the FCO. Even Boris, who to his credit has a degree in Classics rather than PPE, must have some awareness. Consider wisely what you do in your apparent short term interests is my advice.

  15. #105
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Carnival is about the most conservative political organized happening in Germany..
    Wow! looks like a throw back to the 70's ....are the Red brigade given a mention?

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