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Thread: Light fighter showdown in India

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    India, not content with having to currently maintain 5 diferent fighers (not counting Mig-21 and -27...) including the now-being deployed Tejas, and of having ordered a 6th fighter type (Rafale), wants to buy/build another fighter. From another source. I can't even begin to imagine the logistics/maintenance nightmare...
    The fight seems to be down to the Grippen and the F-16, and both companies are ofering to build factories in India! Good luck with that...
    It seems the news is credible, the defence minister is on record saying that advanced talks are going on, and from the look of things lockheed martin has the edge.
    The F-16 and the Tejas will replace the Mig-21 and Mig-27 (i think plane by plane/ squadron by squadron), and then some more.
    Last edited by kuku; 20 Feb 17, at 05:48.
    cheers

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Considering that this is going to happen, would the people here give some opinions on which platform will be good for replacing the mig-21/27 for the next 30-40 years for the indian security scenario?
    In my opinion might be better to go for the Gripen E, there are good chances of working towards a lot of components in common (engine, radar, weapons, avionics etc.)
    F-16 may be a better choice given the times demand a deeper alliance with US for the future.
    The super hornet may also be a good choice if the procurement is done for the airforce and the navy together (may cost more though).
    The F-35 is a better option, however i doubt it will be available in time (considering its orders) and if the requirement for tech transfer will be possible.
    Last edited by kuku; 20 Feb 17, at 14:40.
    cheers

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    Considering that this is going to happen, would the people here give some opinions on which platform will be good for replacing the mig-21/27 for the next 30-40 years for the indian security scenario?
    That was supposed to be the Tejas...

    The "war" right now is down to the F-16 vs the Grippen... unless Korea drops in with the T-50, which is allready being marketed as a light fighter.

    As for "components in common"... what do you mean? What plane with what? Right now, afaik, there's zero communality in the IAF's gear or planned equipment.

  4. #19
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    The Gripen seems to have a lot more upgrade potential, IIRC from the various industry literature (of course, it's industry literature we're talking about).

  5. #20
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    1) Made in India
    and
    2) Assembled in India

    ...are two different things. Tejas falls in the first category if engine co-operates. The others don't matter whether assembled in india or abroad.

    Rafale was supposed to be MII through ToT. But after the French refused to account for quality, GoI changed the requirement. Now it is 36 over the shelf rafales with 50% offset in the form of Kaveri development for Tejas.

    m.economictimes.com/news/defence/manohar-parrikar-confirms-french-help-for-revival-of-indian-kaveri-engine/articleshow/57145943.cms
    Last edited by anil; 20 Feb 17, at 17:02.

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    Considering that this is going to happen, would the people here give some opinions on which platform will be good for replacing the mig-21/27 for the next 30-40 years for the indian security scenario?
    In my opinion might be better to go for the Gripen E, there are good chances of working towards a lot of components in common (engine, radar, weapons, avionics etc.)
    F-16 may be a better choice given the times demand a deeper alliance with US for the future.
    The super hornet may also be a good choice if the procurement is done for the airforce and the navy together (may cost more though).
    The F-35 is a better option, however i doubt it will be available in time (considering its orders) and if the requirement for tech transfer will be possible.
    From what I can tell, the Tejas 2 was canned in favor of producing the Tejas 1a. Unfortunately, if true that means there won't be any engine commonality with the Gripen E. I assume the other components could be shared with the Tejas no matter which aircraft is eventually chosen if it's reworked yet again.

    The F-16E (Block 60) is very good, and actually represents the only case in which a US export aircraft is actually better than what the USAF flies. The UAE laid out $3 billion for some very nice upgrades including: AN/APG-80 AESA radar, uprated engine with 144 kN of thrust, EW/RWR/Jamming system, built in FLIR/laser targeting, and conformal fuel tanks.

    If only the IAF is ordering, the F-16E would provide a larger aircraft with more payload and a bit more capability overall. If the IAF and Indian Navy want a common airframe, the Gripen E/Sea Gripen would be the way to go. Unfortunately I have no idea what a Sea Gripen costs or how much of a weight penalty is involved with the reinforced landing gear, etc. It could be pretty steep on such a small fighter.

    Super Hornets would be a step up in size and cost, and at that point you may as well swing for an F-35A/B mix in my opinion. If India could talk the US into selling F-35s, that would easily give them the most bang for the buck. I don't know if that level of trust has been established yet however. Still with rapid F-35 industrial expansion occurring right now, it would be the perfect time to setup another production line in India.

  7. #22
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    Meanwhile, they are stuck with 36 Rafales as the only mid-sized fighter... I've read reports that the IAF needs over 100 more, to make up proper numbers, but I doubt this will ever happen, tbh...

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    The Rafale's will take time to be delivered and will be very important plane for the air force (nuclear weapons delivery). Dassault has formed the Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited with Reliance Industries Ltd, Reliance will work hard to increase the number of Rafale planes to be procured.

    Over the next decade there may be a requirement more than 250 which will be required for replacement and addition, and on top the security scenario is changing in the area in every aspect.

    I think this light fighter contract will be concluded very fast, from what i read in the news, some other military contracts have been awarded under the Prime Ministers pet "make in india" initiative, and these happened with the usual long time of tenders. Both Lockheed Martin and SAAB are partnering with very major private corporations in India.
    Last edited by kuku; 21 Feb 17, at 07:19.
    cheers

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