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Thread: Free Speech on College Campuses

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Free Speech on College Campuses

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...201-story.html
    Trump suggests cutting federal funds to UC Berkeley after protests force cancellation of Yiannopoulos speech
    UC Berkeley protests

    A scheduled speech by Breitbart's Milo Yiannopoulos at UC Berkeley on Wednesday was canceled amid protests that grew violent.
    Matt Hamilton, Teresa Watanabe and Peter H. KingContact Reporters

    A speech by conservative firebrand and Milo Yiannopoulos was canceled at UC Berkeley on Wednesday amid violent protests that prompted President Trump to suggest cutting funding to the university.

    “If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?” Trump wrote on Twitter.

    It’s unclear whether Trump was actually threatening to cut funding or making some kind of rhetorical point. The larger UC system, for which Berkeley is the flagship campus, receives billions of dollars from the federal government to fund a variety of programs, notably research, student aide and health care programs.

    Research is the most important area.

    “Federal funds are the University’s single most important source of support for research, generating $2.8 billion and accounting for nearly 51% of all University research expenditures in 2013-14,” according to a UC report. “While UC researchers receive support from virtually all federal agencies, the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation are the two largest sponsors, accounting for nearly 80% of UC’s federal research contract and grant awards.”

    The UC, for example, manages the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, which gets more than $700 million in federal funds, that report said.

    In 2013-14, it is estimated that UC students received over $1.6 billion in feral financial aid, including $462 million in gift aid and the remainder in the form of loans and

    University officials called off the event about two hours before Yiannopoulos was to speak at the student union, where more than 1,500 people had gathered outside. Some hurled metal barricades and others smashed windows at the student union.

    “This is not a proud night for this campus, the home of the free speech movement,” said Dan Mogulof, a Berkeley spokesman. He noted that the vandalism interfered with the ability of the Berkeley College Republicans — who hosted Yiannopoulos — to exercise their 1st Amendment rights.

    UPDATE: Trump threatens federal funds after UC Berkeley protests

    Yiannopoulos, 32, writes for Breitbart News — a popular website among the far right — and he is an avowed supporter of President Trump. He’s also a flamboyant provocateur who has been denounced for propagating racism, misogyny and anti-Islam views, but he styles himself a champion of free speech.

    This summer, he gained notoriety for encouraging a barrage of harassment against “Ghostbusters” actress Leslie Jones, which prompted Twitter to ban him from the social media platform.

    Controversy, unrest and, occasionally, violence has followed his speaking tour at colleges across the U.S., for which Berkeley was to be the final event. Last month, a man was shot outside a University of Washington hall where Yiannopoulos was scheduled to speak.

    Wednesday’s decision by Berkeley officials is the second time in two weeks that rowdy protests have forced the cancellation of one of his lectures. UC Davis also canceled one of his speeches last month.

    At Berkeley, police clashed with protesters, and much of the university was placed on lockdown. Campus police repeatedly ordered protesters to leave the area, threatening the crowd with arrest. Most refused to leave.

    At one point, some toppled a generator that was powering a flood light, and the machinery caught fire in the plaza outside the student union. The flames made for dramatic images, and TV helicopters captured the on-campus blaze.

    On his Facebook page, Yiannopoulos said that “violent left-wing protesters” had broken into a building’s ground floor, ripped down barricades and thrown rocks.

    “My team and I are safe,” Yiannopoulous said.

    In characteristic fashion, he pointed to the mayhem on campus to highlight his agenda: “One thing we do know for sure: the Left is absolutely terrified of free speech and will do literally anything to shut it down.”

    The protesters seemed as much drawn by Yiannopoulos’ platform as by the broader ascendance of far-right politics.

    De’andre Bitter, 72, brought a large sign with LED strips that brightly said “No!”

    A retired ship worker originally from Fresno, he stood near the rear of those assembled and said he brought the sign to a slew of recent protests, including a recent women’s march, the airport demonstrations over Trump’s travel restrictions and a protest at UC Davis.

    “We go anywhere people are opposing Trump and his fascist regime,” Bitter said. He viewed the vast majority of protesters as peaceful and attributed the violence to a handful of anarchists, who wore mostly black apparel.

    Others handed out yellow leaflets, calling Yiannopoulos “a tool of Trump’s possessive fascist government.”

    “He has no right to speak at Cal or anywhere else,” the leaflet declared.

    By 8 p.m., the crowd had dwindled to a few hundred and spilled into the streets, marching down Telegraph Avenue. The group had a carnival-like element, with a five-piece jazz band that came together by serendipity, with tuba, trombone and clarinet players marching in step.

    “Some came on purpose. Some came on accident,” said one of the band members, who declined to be identified.

    But the levity was eclipsed by bursts of violence. A handful of demonstrators smashed dowels into a bank of ATMs. Photos on social media showed shattered windows at businesses.

    The sprawling group halted traffic at Telegraph and Durant avenues, where one driver plowed a white sedan into the crowd. One of the demonstrators grabbed on to the car for a block, then rolled off uninjured.

    Another motorist was injured by the crowd. Bryan Quintana, 29, who delivers food for an Italian restaurant, was in a car near the assembly when he said he was hit and pepper-sprayed by some of the demonstrators.

    “I was driving really slow. And somebody hit my car and somebody hit my arm, and hit my head,” Quintana said. His eyes were red and his arm was swollen. He was rattled, but protesters stopped and rushed to pour water on him, to reduce the sting of the pepper spray. He later drove off to deliver an order about a mile away.

    On Tuesday, Yiannopoulos spoke at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, where the university braced for large protests and stationed more than 100 police officers. About 150 protesters arrived and remained peaceful, and there were no reports of arrests, according to the San Luis Obispo Tribune.

    In his remarks there, Yiannopoulos extolled Cal Poly for having a student population that was mostly male, railed against abortion and provided instructions on how to apply to his male-only scholarship fund, the “privilege grant,” according to text of his remarks published by Breitbart.

    The cancellation of his talk at UC Davis sparked debate about the limits of free speech and hate speech. Davis College Republicans decided it was unsafe to continue the event after a large number of protesters blocked access to the venue, according to a release from the school.

    UC Davis interim Chancellor Ralph Hexter said he was “deeply disappointed” by the protests and the cancellation and said he worried that outside groups are using college campuses to trigger conflicts intended for the national stage.

    “I get very, very alarmed with folks who don't treat [freedom of speech] for the treasure that it is,” he said two weeks ago.

    So far, the UC system has resisted calls to cancel Yiannopoulos’ talks. At noon, just hours before Wednesday’s event, Berkeley administrators issued a statement saying they were committed to tolerance as well as free speech.

    In the weeks before Yiannopoulos’ planned Berkeley appearance, administrators received hundreds of letters from faculty, students and others demanding they bar him from speaking.

    One letter from a dozen faculty members argued that his talk could be canceled on the grounds that his actions — which they called “harassment, slander, defamation and hate speech” — violated UC Berkeley’s code of conduct.
    .....
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  2. #2
    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    What's the problem, Troung??

    Obviously it's not free speech unless the leftiess agree with it.

    You should know that.

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    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    The SWJ movement all across the universities are vastly misunderstood.

    It is mostly the faculty encouraging the idiot kids.

    Old lefty professors vicariously living through their students and trying to relive their glorious past days of protests and disruption.

    For them to shed alligator tears while condemning the protests is the height of hypocrasy.
    Last edited by YellowFever; 02 Feb 17, at 16:05.

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    Here's a mirror for some videos from the other thread

    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/vid...y-milo-speech/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-lSDfoVrAc

    https://twitter.com/MisterMetokur/st...91184635654145

    Mayor tacitly condones violence, police initially ordered to stand down.

    https://twitter.com/JesseArreguin/st...58754360877057

    It's apparent these protests have pre-meditation, funding and organization. Hope AG Sessions will pursue an investigation into this.

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    Last edited by Bridgeburner_; 02 Feb 17, at 16:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowFever View Post
    glorious past days of protests and disruption.
    Eh, over in the US it always stays moderately harmless. Zero proper protest culture.

    If we'd have someone of similar character speaking the minimum would be explosive and arson attacks on public infrastructure nearby to disrupt incoming traffic. If it's more harmless and no one cared there'd be simply some fake bomb planted visibly at the place. If it's more serious than this there'd be firearms involved. Oh, and we'll have the rallies on top of any of that of course.

    1500 protesters? That's what our local anarchists in my town - with a university the same size as Berkeley, and a pretty conservative one to boot - mobilize a couple times per year, generally matched by equal police numbers deployed. Without involving any lefties at all.

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    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Eh, over in the US it always stays moderately harmless. Zero proper protest culture.

    If we'd have someone of similar character speaking the minimum would be explosive and arson attacks on public infrastructure nearby to disrupt incoming traffic. If it's more harmless and no one cared there'd be simply some fake bomb planted visibly at the place. If it's more serious than this there'd be firearms involved. Oh, and we'll have the rallies on top of any of that of course.

    1500 protesters? That's what our local anarchists in my town - with a university the same size as Berkeley, and a pretty conservative one to boot - mobilize a couple times per year, generally matched by equal police numbers deployed. Without involving any lefties at all.
    Proper protest culture is good.


    So what's so proper about destroying stuff and blocking roads while protesting?

    Europeans riot over Uber so it's probably a bad example to apply to our riots.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    None of you have a clue as to what happened there yesterday. The article is not telling the true story of what went down. In fact, from what I have seen, no outlet is accurate about what transpired.

    Having first set foot on that campus in 1976 and being an actual witness to last night I think I can relate what happened and got indirectly involved.

    Now why was I over there? It was Wednesday, my off day, and after finishing on the Hornet at 5pm, I took the back way through Oakland to head up to Bancroft and College for my tall latte at Cafe Strada across from Boalt Hall. I've been going there since 1977 and forgot about this speaker. College is two long blocks above Telegraph.

    So let's set out who the players are:

    1) The UC Berkeley Administration whose primary focus is to protect the school. They will allow an event but it there is the possibility of violence they will shut it down. That is an old procedure.

    2) The Young Republicans have been around as long as I have on campus. Their goal, which goes back to the 70's, has always been to bring in a controversial speaker in order to generate a response from the student body. The speaker has always been brought in as the trigger rather than for speaking.


    3) The Student Body has been a liberal student body going back to the 60's. Come on, does anyone think that is going to change. Also a reason why that UC is so damn hard to get into along with it's academic credentials. The student protestors were out there to protest but they were also going to let the speaker speak. They weren't going to let themselves get slammed with the refrain " see the left can't tolerate free speech." They had a nice bonfire going like one sees before big football games.

    4) This is the group the news outlets seem to have over looked. They are the organized Anarchists. These people usually infiltrate demonstrations, such as the Occupy protests in Oakland. They show up in small groups mingling into the crowd. When the time is right they put on their black masks and go on the attack smashing whatever including demonstrators. Last night was different. This time they actually marched down Telegraph already in their black clothes and black cloth masks. Much like watching a SS company marching in Berlin. There were somewhere around 100 of them marching three abreast. They carried signs that weren't on thin sticks but on 2x4s. That size is good for breaking things. When they reached Bancroft and Telegraph, which is the South entrance into the campus starting with Sproul Plaza, they surged straight into group 3 and all hell broke loose. Police weren't there to stop that. Along the way they started fires, blocked Durant, smashed windows and hit protestors.

    It was at this point that the speak was canceled. So the University protected the campus, the Young Republicans got what they wanted which was to demonize the protestors, and the anarchists got what they wanted which was to raise hell and cause havoc no matter who you were. Seems our local scoop news reporter saw pretty much the same thing.


    His audio interview Feb. 2nd black circle white arrow: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/audio/phil-matier/
    Last edited by tbm3fan; 02 Feb 17, at 22:43.

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Cut federal funding, let these colleges sort themselves out...
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    None of you have a clue as to what happened there yesterday. The article is not telling the true story of what went down. In fact, from what I have seen, no outlet is accurate about what transpired.

    Having first set foot on that campus in 1976 and being an actual witness to last night I think I can relate what happened and got indirectly involved.

    Now why was I over there? It was Wednesday, my off day, and after finishing on the Hornet at 5pm, I took the back way through Oakland to head up to Bancroft and College for my tall latte at Cafe Strada across from Boalt Hall. I've been going there since 1977 and forgot about this speaker. College is two long blocks above Telegraph.

    So let's set out who the players are:

    1) The UC Berkeley Administration whose primary focus is to protect the school. They will allow an event but it there is the possibility of violence they will shut it down. That is an old procedure.

    2) The Young Republicans have been around as long as I have on campus. Their goal, which goes back to the 70's, has always been to bring in a controversial speaker in order to generate a response from the student body. The speaker has always been brought in as the trigger rather than for speaking.


    3) The Student Body has been a liberal student body going back to the 60's. Come on, does anyone think that is going to change. Also a reason why that UC is so damn hard to get into along with it's academic credentials. The student protestors were out there to protest but they were also going to let the speaker speak. They weren't going to let themselves get slammed with the refrain " see the left can't tolerate free speech." They had a nice bonfire going like one sees before big football games.

    4) This is the group the news outlets seem to have over looked. They are the organized Anarchists. These people usually infiltrate demonstrations, such as the Occupy protests in Oakland. They show up in small groups mingling into the crowd. When the time is right they put on their black masks and go on the attack smashing whatever including demonstrators. Last night was different. This time they actually marched down Telegraph already in their black clothes and black cloth masks. Much like watching a SS company marching in Berlin. There were somewhere around 100 of them marching three abreast. They carried signs that weren't on thin sticks but on 2x4s. That size is good for breaking things. When they reached Bancroft and Telegraph, which is the South entrance into the campus starting with Sproul Plaza, they surged straight into group 3 and all hell broke loose. Police weren't there to stop that. Along the way they started fires, blocked Durant, smashed windows and hit protestors.

    It was at this point that the speak was canceled. So the University protected the campus, the Young Republicans got what they wanted which was to demonize the protestors, and the anarchists got what they wanted which was to raise hell and cause havoc no matter who you were. Seems our local scoop news reporter saw pretty much the same thing.


    His audio interview Feb. 2nd black circle white arrow: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/audio/phil-matier/
    Over here the organizer of the protest carries the entire responsibility for the safety of the participants, bystanders and the property. I think it is fair that way, do you?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Eh, over in the US it always stays moderately harmless. Zero proper protest culture.

    If we'd have someone of similar character speaking the minimum would be explosive and arson attacks on public infrastructure nearby to disrupt incoming traffic. If it's more harmless and no one cared there'd be simply some fake bomb planted visibly at the place. If it's more serious than this there'd be firearms involved. Oh, and we'll have the rallies on top of any of that of course.

    1500 protesters? That's what our local anarchists in my town - with a university the same size as Berkeley, and a pretty conservative one to boot - mobilize a couple times per year, generally matched by equal police numbers deployed. Without involving any lefties at all.
    So, the South Koreans have no protest culture? 1.500.000 people on the main square, zero incidents, zero injured, zero damaged property and they cleaned up on the way home. Were they unheard?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Over here the organizer of the protest carries the entire responsibility for the safety of the participants, bystanders and the property. I think it is fair that way, do you?
    Good luck with that. How do you hold a non-student organizer who co-opts the protest with their people and their purpose not to mention the other group in black. Actually I feel bad for the students since once word gets out a whole mass of denizens from the region show up and chaos ensues. It's like a tweet saying there is a cool party at someone's house and 1000 people show up. Actually students showed up today to help clean up.

    The building for the speech is the large one on the right side of the photo. That building is right on Bancroft and Durant not buried in the middle of campus. The big open area is Sproul Plaza where I spent many a day girl watching. Also noted many of the people there were not students. That entry point is used to move from the south side of campus to the north side by pedestrians and bicyclists. This is a wide open campus unlike most others in California. I was up the road by Bowditch, a full long block away (east), knowing full well trouble would migrate down (west) towards Shattuck when things got rolling.
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    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    So, the South Koreans have no protest culture? 1.500.000 people on the main square, zero incidents, zero injured, zero damaged property and they cleaned up on the way home. Were they unheard?
    Over here in Los Angeles, the LAPD is on record as saying they hope the Koreans would gather more.

    Once they disperse, the streets are always cleaner than when they started.

    But in defense of Kato, things don't always happen that way.

    Last edited by YellowFever; 03 Feb 17, at 02:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    None of you have a clue as to what happened there yesterday. The article is not telling the true story of what went down. In fact, from what I have seen, no outlet is accurate about what transpired.

    Having first set foot on that campus in 1976 and being an actual witness to last night I think I can relate what happened and got indirectly involved.

    Now why was I over there? It was Wednesday, my off day, and after finishing on the Hornet at 5pm, I took the back way through Oakland to head up to Bancroft and College for my tall latte at Cafe Strada across from Boalt Hall. I've been going there since 1977 and forgot about this speaker. College is two long blocks above Telegraph.

    So let's set out who the players are:

    1) The UC Berkeley Administration whose primary focus is to protect the school. They will allow an event but it there is the possibility of violence they will shut it down. That is an old procedure.

    2) The Young Republicans have been around as long as I have on campus. Their goal, which goes back to the 70's, has always been to bring in a controversial speaker in order to generate a response from the student body. The speaker has always been brought in as the trigger rather than for speaking.


    3) The Student Body has been a liberal student body going back to the 60's. Come on, does anyone think that is going to change. Also a reason why that UC is so damn hard to get into along with it's academic credentials. The student protestors were out there to protest but they were also going to let the speaker speak. They weren't going to let themselves get slammed with the refrain " see the left can't tolerate free speech." They had a nice bonfire going like one sees before big football games.

    4) This is the group the news outlets seem to have over looked. They are the organized Anarchists. These people usually infiltrate demonstrations, such as the Occupy protests in Oakland. They show up in small groups mingling into the crowd. When the time is right they put on their black masks and go on the attack smashing whatever including demonstrators. Last night was different. This time they actually marched down Telegraph already in their black clothes and black cloth masks. Much like watching a SS company marching in Berlin. There were somewhere around 100 of them marching three abreast. They carried signs that weren't on thin sticks but on 2x4s. That size is good for breaking things. When they reached Bancroft and Telegraph, which is the South entrance into the campus starting with Sproul Plaza, they surged straight into group 3 and all hell broke loose. Police weren't there to stop that. Along the way they started fires, blocked Durant, smashed windows and hit protestors.

    It was at this point that the speak was canceled. So the University protected the campus, the Young Republicans got what they wanted which was to demonize the protestors, and the anarchists got what they wanted which was to raise hell and cause havoc no matter who you were. Seems our local scoop news reporter saw pretty much the same thing.


    His audio interview Feb. 2nd black circle white arrow: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/audio/phil-matier/
    Given how apparently longstanding this is, and how clear it is that the speaker will be controversial, and the existence of this 'anarchist' group, is there a reason that support from the city was not called in for assistance in advance?

    I mean, if it's so obvious then pro-active measures should have been foreseen and taken right?

    Even more unforgivable is the police (not the campus police) just allowed the riot to occur. No attempt to stop them.

    If this group is some sort of organized group, there must be some 'meeting ground' physical or digital, and it should be possible to 'infiltrate' the group.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongLurker View Post
    Given how apparently longstanding this is, and how clear it is that the speaker will be controversial, and the existence of this 'anarchist' group, is there a reason that support from the city was not called in for assistance in advance?

    I mean, if it's so obvious then pro-active measures should have been foreseen and taken right?

    Even more unforgivable is the police (not the campus police) just allowed the riot to occur. No attempt to stop them.

    If this group is some sort of organized group, there must be some 'meeting ground' physical or digital, and it should be possible to 'infiltrate' the group.
    How the hell anyone would know outside of city hall is anyone's guess. City police do not come onto campus unless called upon. Campus police have always protected the buildings going back as far as I can remember. They will let you mess up the concrete Sproul Plaza but draw the line at trying to enter a building.

    Now once the action moved west down Bancroft to Shattuck, about five blocks, those people had no affiliation with the students at Sproul Plaza. They were the anarchists that Phil Matier described as having poles and heavy duty plastic signs aka shields. From my point of view, farther away, I thought they were 2x4s. Either way a weapon brought to the scene for one purpose only. Why the City Police of Berkeley were not out in force at that point beats me.

    The meeting ground for the group I assume is digital. If you are going to infiltrate then you need to be between 18-30 and male.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    None of you have a clue as to what happened there yesterday. The article is not telling the true story of what went down. In fact, from what I have seen, no outlet is accurate about what transpired.

    Having first set foot on that campus in 1976 and being an actual witness to last night I think I can relate what happened and got indirectly involved.

    Now why was I over there? It was Wednesday, my off day, and after finishing on the Hornet at 5pm, I took the back way through Oakland to head up to Bancroft and College for my tall latte at Cafe Strada across from Boalt Hall. I've been going there since 1977 and forgot about this speaker. College is two long blocks above Telegraph.

    So let's set out who the players are:

    1) The UC Berkeley Administration whose primary focus is to protect the school. They will allow an event but it there is the possibility of violence they will shut it down. That is an old procedure.

    2) The Young Republicans have been around as long as I have on campus. Their goal, which goes back to the 70's, has always been to bring in a controversial speaker in order to generate a response from the student body. The speaker has always been brought in as the trigger rather than for speaking.


    3) The Student Body has been a liberal student body going back to the 60's. Come on, does anyone think that is going to change. Also a reason why that UC is so damn hard to get into along with it's academic credentials. The student protestors were out there to protest but they were also going to let the speaker speak. They weren't going to let themselves get slammed with the refrain " see the left can't tolerate free speech." They had a nice bonfire going like one sees before big football games.

    4) This is the group the news outlets seem to have over looked. They are the organized Anarchists. These people usually infiltrate demonstrations, such as the Occupy protests in Oakland. They show up in small groups mingling into the crowd. When the time is right they put on their black masks and go on the attack smashing whatever including demonstrators. Last night was different. This time they actually marched down Telegraph already in their black clothes and black cloth masks. Much like watching a SS company marching in Berlin. There were somewhere around 100 of them marching three abreast. They carried signs that weren't on thin sticks but on 2x4s. That size is good for breaking things. When they reached Bancroft and Telegraph, which is the South entrance into the campus starting with Sproul Plaza, they surged straight into group 3 and all hell broke loose. Police weren't there to stop that. Along the way they started fires, blocked Durant, smashed windows and hit protestors.

    It was at this point that the speak was canceled. So the University protected the campus, the Young Republicans got what they wanted which was to demonize the protestors, and the anarchists got what they wanted which was to raise hell and cause havoc no matter who you were. Seems our local scoop news reporter saw pretty much the same thing.


    His audio interview Feb. 2nd black circle white arrow: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/audio/phil-matier/
    Exactly as I remember the players being aligned in the 1977-83 period when I was at Cal as both an undergrad and grad student.
    After SDSU, it was eye-opening.

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