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Thread: Refugee ban

  1. #1
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Refugee ban

    Not sure why anyone would want to come to this racist place



    Trump’s order to ban refugees and immigrants triggers fears across the globe

    By Sudarsan Raghavan, Louisa Loveluck and Kevin Sieff

    January 26 at 10:56 AM 

    CAIRO — President Trump’s executive order to start vetting potential immigrants and visitors to the United States, as well as to ban some refugees seeking to resettle there, will shatter countless dreams and divide families, would-be immigrants and human rights activists warned.

    The draft order, expected to be signed as early as Thursday, calls for the immediate cessation of ongoing resettlement of Syrian refugees in the United States, rejecting visas for visitors and immigrant hopefuls based partly on their ideology and opinions.


    “I feel devastated,” said Ibrahim Abu Ghanem, 37, a father of three in the Yemeni capital, Sanaa, whose father and two brothers live in the United States. “This means all my future plans are going to go down the drain.”

    If the order is enacted, potential immigrants and visitors from seven Muslim countries — Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Iran, Libya and Sudan — considered by the Trump administration as nations whose citizens “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States” will be immediately affected. For the next 30 days, they will not be allowed entry into the United States, even if they have visas and relatives who are U.S. citizens.



    Religious leaders and immigrant rights supporters protested near the White House to condemn President Trump's executive orders to crack down on refugees and undocumented immigrants. (Video: Alice Li/Photo: Oliver Contreras/The Washington Post)

    [The Islamic State wanted the West to fear refugees and Muslims. It worked.]

    The order also calls for halting all admission and resettlement of refugees for 120 days pending the review of vetting procedures. For Syrian refugees, the ban will remain in place until further notice.

    Once restarted, annual refugee admissions from all nations would be halved, from its current level of 100,000 to 50,000.

    For those affected, the fear is that the order will be a harbinger for even greater restrictions on the horizon for Muslim immigrants, refugees and visitor -- fulfilling Trump’s campaign promises of “extreme vetting” of foreigners seeking entry into the United States and installing “a Muslim ban.” Somalia, Syria, Iraq and Iran are among the leading countries of origin of recent refugees to the United States.




    “It’s going to be devastating,” said Denise Bell, senior campaigner for refugee and migrant rights for the watchdog group Amnesty International. “Refugees are not a threat. They are the ones fleeing horrific violence. They are trying to rebuild their lives. They want the same safety and opportunities that any of us would want.”

    “And so we are scapegoating them in the guise of national security. Instead, we are betraying our own values. We are violating international law,” she said.

    Since Wednesday, as news of the impending order spread, lives were quickly affected across the world, particularly among the citizens of the countries immediately affected. For them, it's already difficult to get visas or immigrate to the United States. Vetting has been stringent since the September 11, 2001 terror attacks, say human rights activists. Even so, many potential Muslim immigrants went through long screening processes, often lasting years, to gain entry to the United States. Now, many find themselves in an emotional and bureaucratic limbo.





    Syrian refugees to Trump: We are not terrorists
     

    Play Video3:14




    After fleeing war in Syria and living in Jordan for two years, the Jbawi family came to America through the U.S. Refugee Resettlement Program. They are optimistically building a new life in Baltimore while keeping an eye on the national conversation about Muslim refugees. (Zoeann Murphy/The Washington Post)

    [Trump’s intervention into policing, voting and immigration sets up showdown with America’s largest cities]

    In Sanaa, Ghanem had been making plans to travel with his family to Cairo to apply for visas at the U.S. embassy. His mother and younger brother are also in Yemen. He wanted to reunite his family.

    "My wife and I have spent countless nights dreaming of a better future for us and especially our children,” said Ghanem, a former administrator at a center for battling cancer.” We were hoping for a better life, better opportunities, and good education for our children.”

    The shock for Syrian refugees already in the United States cut deepest for those awaiting the arrival of loved ones.

    For Eman, a widow in Chicago who asked that her surname be withheld out of concern for family back home, that is her son.

    They fled the western city of Homs in 2012, fearing he would be conscripted into President Bashar al-Assad's military. Months after her own arrival in America, she had expected the eldest to arrive in short order, once paperwork for his new marriage was approved.




    “It seemed like everything was fine and he was finally going to join me here. Now they tell me it might be impossible because of the president's new decree,” she said. “I'm so scared. I came to America because I thought it would be best for my family.”

    [Why Trump can’t simply build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border with an executive order]

    Syria's bitter war has sparked the largest refugee crisis since World War II. Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon have absorbed more than four million displaced Syrians, spread across camps or living on meager resources in cramped apartments. In comparison, the United States accepted less than 13,000 last year, a figure that only rose in the final months after tight vetting procedures initially stemmed the monthly flow to the low hundreds.

    “We have to remember these people are escaping the very same terrorism that Trump says he’s banning them for,” said Suzanne Akhras Sahloul, founder of the Syrian Community Network, a grass-roots initiative that has stepped in to fill the linguistic and cultural gaps that larger relief agencies are unable to address.

    Refugee advocates say the resettlement of Syrians presents challenges unusual in the United States, even among new refugees. Doctors in Chicago discovered that some Syrians still carried shrapnel in their bodies. Less visible but more pervasive is the trauma. Many have been tortured or lived amid constant bombardment.

    In Iraq, where Iraqi military personnel are fighting against the Islamic State alongside U.S. special forces, the visa ban was considered an insult.

    "They trained me to fight terrorism, and they look at me as a terrorist?" said one F-16 pilot who trained in the U.S. for five years, but declined to be named because he did not have permission to speak from his superiors. "It's true that they have the right to protect their country, but that doesn't mean they should treat us like we are germs."

    [Video: Syrian refugees to Trump: We are not terrorists]

    He said he has no desire to live in the United States, but that he would like to visit again and "relax" after "fighting terrorism on their behalf".

    "If they really do ban us, it means we are of no value to them," he said. "They are just using us."

    Ammar Karim, 37, an Iraqi correspondent with Agence France Presse, is in the final steps of a program to resettle in the United States. He had applied four years ago, and his sponsor in Seattle was recently informed to prepare for his arrival. Karim was one of the first interpreters to work with US Marines in Baghdad following the 2003 US-led invasion that toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. He has also worked for large American news organizations, making him a target of militants.




    On Thursday, Karim did not hide his disappointment and anger.

    "Now, because of this new decision, I feel there is no hope that I will move to the U.S.," said Karim. "I will have to stay in this country that is still not at peace. The people who will be affected by this ban are those who did the best for America in Iraq. They sacrificed their lives."

    "It’s not fair," he continued. "This president doesn’t understand our situation. The U.S. is abandoning the people who stood behind them."

    For Iran and Iranian-Americans, the new restrictions are expected to hit particularly hard. Of the roughly one million Iranian-Americans now living in the United States, the vast majority still has family members inside Iran. Those relatives, who fall under the new executive order banning citizens from certain countries, would be prohibited from visiting loved ones in the United States. Students, artists, filmmakers and even Europeans who also hold Iranian passports could be denied entry.

    Under the executive order, governments are required to provide U.S. agencies with information confirming that any applicants are not a security threat. But because the United States and Iran do not have diplomatic ties — and a history of tense relations — Iranian officials are unlikely to comply.

    Even if they did, “we are skeptical. . . the Trump administration would accept such efforts,” NIAC Action, the sister organization of the National Iranian American Council, said in a statement Wednesday.

    “This would, in effect, mean a permanent ban on entry for Iranians,” the advocacy group said, adding that even Iranian green-card holders currently outside of the United States could be barred from reentry.

    In the world’s largest refugee camp, called Dadaab, near the Kenya-Somalia border, news of Trump’s impending announcement spread quickly.

    “You could see the sadness on people’s faces,” said Mohammed Rashid, an English teacher who has been waiting for five years for his asylum case to be approved.

    Between 2001 and 2015, the U.S. admitted more than 90,000 Somali refugees, according to the U.S. Office of Refugee Resettlement. Many of them came from Dadaab, where generations of Somalis first fled civil war and then Islamic extremist groups, often applying for asylum in the United States after arriving at the camp.




    Rashid fled Somalia for Dadaab in 1992 to save his family from the country’s civil war.

    “We thought our children would have better lives in the U.S.,” said Rashid. “Now, with Trump, we are disappointed. There is nowhere else for us to go.”

    Rashid sat for an interview with American resettlement officials in Kenya in 2015. His fingerprints were taken, but while waiting for his asylum to be approved, he and his wife had a third child, which he said delayed their approval.

    After the election, he started following several Trump-related accounts on Twitter to keep abreast of American news. His brother had been resettled in Seattle several years earlier, and he already felt an attachment to the United States. In November, when a Somali-born student at Ohio State injured 11 people in an attack, Rashid read Trump’s tweet that the attacker was a “Somali refugee who should not have been in our country.”

    On Wednesday, Rashid saw a tweet that said Somali refugees would be banned from the United States. He said he tried not to cry.

    “The refugees are people who ran away, they are victims,” he said. “I don’t know why we are being targeted.”

    In Sudan, many people were surprised to see their country on the list of affected countries. Earlier this month, the Obama administration relaxed longstanding sanctions on the country, and it appeared that relations between the two nations were warming. As part of the agreement to lift sanctions, Sudanese officials pledged to increase cooperation on combating terrorism.

    In 2001, the United States accepted more than 4,000 so-called “Lost Boys” from Sudan, whose families were killed or vanished during the country’s civil war. Their stories were broadcast in dozens of books, movies and television reports. Some of them went on to careers as professional athletes, diplomats and renowned writers.

    The United States later resettled a large number of refugees fleeing conflict in Sudan’s Darfur region, where 3.3 million people are still in need of humanitarian assistance, according to the United Nations.

    Some Sudanese refugees in Cairo, have spent years in Egypt seeking resettlement to the United States and Europe. Now, there's even less hope.

    “I have been trying for four years, but all is in vain,” said Maher Ismail, 23, a university student. “Our conditions here are dire. It is very difficult to get anywhere, the U.S. or any other place.”

    “I have applied for a lottery visa three months ago anyway, but I know how this is going to end up,” he added.

    Ghanem believes that the attitude towards Muslim immigrants and visitors will only worsen in the United States is afraid his family will never be reunited.

    “This decision has really destroyed our dreams,” he said. “I don't know what I will say to my mother or how I would break the news for her.”



    Loveluck reported from Beirut and Sieff from Nairobi. Ali Al Mujahed in Sanaa, Yemen, Heba Mahfouz in Cairo, Mustafa Salim in Baghdad, Loveday Morris in Jerusalem, Erin Cunningham in Turkey and Heba Habib in Stockholm contributed to this report.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.23fa6d281e6e
    Last edited by troung; 26 Jan 17, at 16:34.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Racist? Muslims encompass several races and nationalities.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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    How exactly does not wanting to let people who can't be properly vetted into the country fit into the definition of racism?

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    Padishah Shahanshah Senior Contributor xerxes's Avatar
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    Seriously,
    If you want to think that way than Hitler wasnt racist as Judaism was a religion and not a single race and definitly not a nationality.
    Last edited by xerxes; 29 Jan 17, at 05:23.
    If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    I was being sarcastic....
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Padishah Shahanshah Senior Contributor xerxes's Avatar
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    Although the thread says refugee the ban applies to dual citizens and Green card holders. Meaning it will impact just about anyone that is normal but just speaks a different language and probably has darker skin than the usual white (but born from those countries). Guess what, one of the first caught at JFK was a Iraqi translator for the US Army. Yeap. Your own allies. Congrats on the big catch.

    Tell me, why folks from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not banned ? is the Wahhabist regime in Riadh that tremoundous !

    On a side note, I always saw US as the "right" moral leader of world. There were times, where it may have stumbled (cowboy-era-let's-go-kill-some-Iraqi era of Bolton/Cheney/Rumsfeld), but in aggregate throughout history it was a force for good and greateness as it had done more than its fair share to help those in needs ... and to be fair at times gotten little back for its own people in return. What can I say; the weight of crown is heavy no doubt. That being said, I do believe one needs to respect American people in their choice of their administration since the people have spoken and wanted to change.

    But now that has been done, there is no going back and there are consequences. Meaning that you will loose all your priviliges and free pass for being snub and going around the world and telling people how they should live their lives. You will loose the right to pretend how your actions will help free others (when it is clearly self-centered) and equally/inversly sadly the world will also loose a force for good when US actually steps in does something positive that is not self-centered. You will loose the right to have the moral leadership. Will US fall into the same category of Putin's Russia, hopefully not, but definitly wont be where it was before.

    Lastly, I remember when Ahmedinejad was president in Iran. I was so trying hard to explain to people, the concept of a populist president taking over a nation and that although he was saying lots of crazy things it was means to hold his power/base rather than actual him being crazy. I recall how other posters were all getting self rightous and giving lecturing about their flawless Western government of how they would never say crazy things (Bush at the time). Well guess f**ing what ? now you got a populist president and he's got half of the nation by their balls.
    Last edited by xerxes; 29 Jan 17, at 05:30.
    If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Sorry friend,but you are mistaken.While the ban should clearly include those you mention and more,while giving a waiver to those who helped US,this by no means reduces anything.America was a true model before 1965.It has been one since,too.But the difference is that before people noticed a good thing when they saw it.After it was a bit of coercion in that."Be as we say,or else..."
    American culture became a mockery since it started with this sort if baseless platitudes.There is also no shortage of dark skinned people.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    American culture became a mockery since it started with this sort if baseless platitudes.There is also no shortage of dark skinned people.
    Dafuq? Sadly stuff like this attracts such people, oddly the guy who doesn't realize when people talk about how great the west is and its superiority to all else; they don't mean his people.

    ====
    On the subject of refugees I'd be fine applying the Japanese model.
    Last edited by troung; 29 Jan 17, at 08:36.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Last edited by Chunder; 29 Jan 17, at 09:28.
    Ego Numquam

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    The only reason The Trumpet has put in place restrictions on visitors to the US from specific countries is because it would be too easy to overturn restrictions on the basis of religion. It also would lay bare the hypocrisy of the so-called evangelical rightwing.

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The only reason The Trumpet has put in place restrictions on visitors to the US from specific countries is because it would be too easy to overturn restrictions on the basis of religion. It also would lay bare the hypocrisy of the so-called evangelical rightwing.
    Still doesn't explain KSA, UAE, Pakistan waiver.

    I have seen a meme on FB, with analysis from Cato Institute saying the citizens from the banned countries killed 0 Americans on US soil, while those on the waiver amassed to 3000 (the methodology is somewhat weird, but the point is still there).
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Still doesn't explain KSA, UAE, Pakistan waiver.

    I have seen a meme on FB, with analysis from Cato Institute saying the citizens from the banned countries killed 0 Americans on US soil, while those on the waiver amassed to 3000 (the methodology is somewhat weird, but the point is still there).
    All those countries are U.S. Allies. DOR is incorrect, as the papers that can be bothered doing their job pointed out, and latest on American Thinker, it clearly isn't a ban on Muslims - and has done before. More often than not by Democrat Presidents.

    Just disappointing so many outlets have reverted to the propoganda of so many autocratic regimes. I'd swear it's as if they want to be so blatantly incorrect - Trump couldn't possibly ask for a better cheerleader.

    Fake News with Alternative Democrat facts around every corner.
    Ego Numquam

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    You're kidding, right. Aussie sense of humor I guess.

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    The Economist, Jan 28, 2017

    "In the past 40 years there has been not a single fatal terrorist attack in America carried out by anyone belonging to the seven nationalities targeted by the order. Excluding the 9/11 attacks, whose Egyptian, Emirati, Lebanese and Saudi Arabian executioners would not have been covered by Mr Trump’s ban, America has suffered hardly any terrorism perpetrated by immigrants. According to a study by Alex Nowrasteh for the Cato Institute, the risk of an American being killed in a terrorist attack by a refugee in a given year is one in 3.6bn."

    and,

    "Worsening the damage, he also signalled, in an interview with a Christian television channel, that the ban would not apply to Christians. Syrian Christians, claimed Mr Trump, were “horribly treated” by his predecessor. 'If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible,' he said. 'I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them.' This was not merely incendiary but untrue: last year America accepted 37,521 Christian refugees and 38,901 Muslims."

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...ddled-masses-0

  15. #15
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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