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Thread: Refugee ban

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims
    Your statement hardly repudiates the point of the article though does it? At its worst the policy is a massive overreaction to a non-existent threat (Americans are in more danger from their household appliances than they are from 'Moslem terrorists') and at best it's misdirected, not even targeting those countries with the worse records for tolerating /promoting extremism. I mean if your going to pull out a gun and shoot something at least at shoot the right target for Gods sake.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Household appliances are sort of needed to run my household. Refugees are people we accept out of the goodness of our hearts. They aren't the same.

    I might have agreed that the risk was trivial 10 years ago, but not today. Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  3. #18
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    Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...ies-180957324/

    n the summer of 1942, the SS Drottningholm set sail carrying hundreds of desperate Jewish refugees, en route to New York City from Sweden. Among them was Herbert Karl Friedrich Bahr, a 28-year-old from Germany, who was also seeking entry to the United States. When he arrived, he told the same story as his fellow passengers: As a victim of persecution, he wanted asylum from Nazi violence.

    But during a meticulous interview process that involved five separate government agencies, Bahr's story began to unravel. Days later, the FBI accused Bahr of being a Nazi spy. They said the Gestapo had given him $7,000 to steal American industrial secrets—and that he'd posed as a refugee in order to sneak into the country unnoticed. His case was rushed to trial, and the prosecution called for the death penalty.

    What Bahr didn’t know, or perhaps didn’t mind, was that his story would be used as an excuse to deny visas to thousands of Jews fleeing the horrors of the Nazi regime....

    The American ambassador to France, William Bullitt, made the unsubstantiated statement that France fell in 1940 partly because of a vast network of spying refugees. “More than one-half the spies captured doing actual military spy work against the French Army were refugees from Germany,” he said. “Do you believe there are no Nazi and Communist agents of this sort in America?”

    Immigration restrictions actually tightened as the refugee crisis worsened. Wartime measures demanded special scrutiny of anyone with relatives in Nazi territories—even relatives in concentration camps. At a press conference, President Roosevelt repeated the unproven claims from his advisers that some Jewish refugees had been coerced to spy for the Nazis. “Not all of them are voluntary spies,” Roosevelt said. “It is rather a horrible story, but in some of the other countries that refugees out of Germany have gone to, especially Jewish refugees, they found a number of definitely proven spies.”
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #19
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    The refugees at issue are safe in their camps, it's cheaper to keep them there, and safer for us. They are owed nothing.

    Your statement hardly repudiates the point of the article though does it? A
    Yes it does.
    Last edited by troung; 30 Jan 17, at 16:15.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Household appliances are sort of needed to run my household. Refugees are people we accept out of the goodness of our hearts. They aren't the same.

    I might have agreed that the risk was trivial 10 years ago, but not today. Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.
    Meh, they kept coming you liked it or not.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  6. #21
    Regular dan m's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced this refugee ban actually does anything to keep the US safe. If anyone has evidence to change my opinion on it, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it.

  7. #22
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims
    Omar Mateen born in New Hyde Park, New York did manage to kill 49 victims...

  8. #23
    Padishah Shahanshah Senior Contributor xerxes's Avatar
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    An uncoordinated executive order that left a complete mess. Found out 24 hours later that actually British and Canadian dual citizens were considered ok guys... for now. In the meantime, Green card holders were left in limbo. And this team in the White House that cannot even manage rolling out a simple progra wants to manage a trillion dollar economy. These are the clowns that was repel and replace O-care. Was listening to an interview, critics were saying how it would been good to have a heads-up on the bans, the Dr. Goebbels from the other side, were saying: "well, had we moved the program to Monday and advised airlines in advance, than the terrorist would have accelerated their plan". Shows the level of stupidity and ignorance behind that statement.

    I don't know what Flynn and Steve Bahnon are up to, but whatever their plans are probably not pretty and have a feeling they are going to ruin the world, ... or Make America Great Again, depending on your political orientation.

    That being said, I fundamentally don't have a problem with refugee ban and dont find that racist at all. It is inhumane but it is every nation choice to decide what they need to do, depending on their resources and their generosity. What I do consider racism is the action toward dual citizens and their own Green cardholders. Just because someone has darker skin, doesn't mean that he/she is about eat you.

    By the way, great job in screwing the Iraqis, I hear they are really happy.
    Disappointed with Mattis though.
    Last edited by xerxes; 31 Jan 17, at 00:27.
    If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

  9. #24
    Padishah Shahanshah Senior Contributor xerxes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    I read it, it is piece of work that is designed to reinforce one's right wing point of view. I seen something similar from Fareez Z. from CNN on FB that reinforces what the left wants to hear.
    If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    The refugees at issue are safe in their camps, it's cheaper to keep them there, and safer for us. They are owed nothing.
    Bullshit.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...180746859.html
    http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2016/refugee-camps/

    https://placesjournal.org/article/ca...5FAaAvHy8P8HAQ
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-dying-slowly

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    The horror,the horror...

    I assume you hosted 5-6 of those chaps in your own backyard since you call others' bs.

    As for refugee safezones,KSA and Qatar should solve this mess,or else...And they will.They started this sh!t.Time to end it.Yes,that presumes them standing up to Assad and Russia.Will work wonders for the Syrian peace process.

    That will also remove Russian and Turkish leverage on Europe.''Refugees'' are mostly a weapon for hostile nations.Yes,I give 2 fvcks about their humanity.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  12. #27
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    mihais,

    'Refugees'' are mostly a weapon for hostile nations.Yes,I give 2 fvcks about their humanity.
    of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

    we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    mihais,



    of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

    we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.
    You don't make them into Americans, but you make everyone Americans v 5.0. The American of 1990 is different than the the American 1/4 century later. Nothing wrong with the new Americans, just us the outsiders need some time to get used to it.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Maybe so,gentlemen.But what I noticed years ago and these elections showed it for all to see is growing tribalism in America.Tribes tend to overlap with race and geography.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    mihais,



    of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

    we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.
    Yes for the most part. A large number of people were turned away from Ellis and Angel Island. There was also the Chinese exclusion act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act. As late as 1994 California Voters passed Prop 187 a ballot initiative to establish a state-run citizenship screening system and prohibit illegal aliens from using non-emergency health care, public education, and other services in the State of California. I agree with your point of view but it is not so simple as saying we except all refugee. Mariel boatlift we still have some people in detention.

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