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Thread: Two Chinas and the Donald

  1. #46
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Toby,
    So, what you’re saying is that the Italians can’t keep doing the same thing they’ve been doing for years – modest quality at high prices – because the barriers to entry have come down. So, now they have to either slash their prices to the point where it matches their quality, or improve their quality to the point where it matches their prices.

    Is that it?
    And, if so, . . . well, what’s the problem?
    Modest quality, That would be fair on certain items, but not all...We've dealt with various Italian manufacturers. Some have now ceased production due to over indulgent promotion...spending way too much on advertising on an over priced product. But we also through trial and error deal with some really good companies. They tend to be family owned too. But yeh you're probably right in fairness.. Hope they've not left it too late in pulling their socks up


    Yeah, they had this thing going on, the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. And, the guy in charge, Chairman Mao, he wasn’t all that keen on business. Then, this other guy takes over, Deng Xiaoping, about 1977-78, and for the next 20 years it’s off to the races.
    I believe so..So far they managed to have their cake and eat it....Can't last forever.

    No, you wouldn’t have seen China-made stuff in the UK in the 1970s. It would have been Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Hong Kong or somewhere else that is currently made in China by the same company. Like Giant bicycles, an excellent Taiwan brand, is made in China
    We've still got a Toshiba Microwave oven from 1978 ( still works). I believe Giant make most cycle frames for various brands. My mates just bought one (mountain bike). My old one is a Specialized which I believe is also made by Giant. My new ones a Mondraker (proper dogs bollocks one) comes from Spain of all places ;-)

  2. #47
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Nov 1, 2016 - Fiat Chrysler Automobiles reported 176609 U.S. sales in October 2016, a 10 percent year-over-year decrease. See more FCA sales numbers...
    Lets face it. Chrysler is a sick dog too...As bad as Fiat is, it would probably be a step up for Chrysler..

  3. #48
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Say what you like, China manufacturers a massive amount of low quality goods. The majority of which is inferior compared to European or Western goods. Its just price orientated stupidity that keeps their exports afloat. Certainly not the quality.

  4. #49
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I believe so..So far they managed to have their cake and eat it....Can't last forever
    In my 30+ years of analyzing China, "it can't last" was flavor of the year only about 25 times.

  5. #50
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    In my 30+ years of analyzing China, "it can't last" was flavor of the year only about 25 times.
    Life is cyclical, everything ends..bit like the Stock markets.....'It cant go wrong, it can't go wrong ...Oh s--t its gone wrong...what do we do now?'....

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Say what you like, China manufacturers a massive amount of low quality goods. The majority of which is inferior compared to European or Western goods. Its just price orientated stupidity that keeps their exports afloat. Certainly not the quality.
    Some of their Solar panels are as good as anything made in Europe.The best Hisense TV's are comparable to top Samsung and Sony products. Lenovo Laptopsare as good as its rivals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Boat View Post

    I hope Trump puts a stop to the Chinese island building in the South China Sea.
    All because of Obama's pivot to Asia. Meanwhile the Philippines have told the U.S. to fwack off.and Vietnam and China are now establishing grounds of agreement. I wonder if Tillitson stirring things up in the SCS is for the benefit of his pals at Exon Mobile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    All because of Obama's pivot to Asia. Meanwhile the Philippines have told the U.S. to fwack off.and Vietnam and China are now establishing grounds of agreement. I wonder if Tillitson stirring things up in the SCS is for the benefit of his pals at Exon Mobile
    All that SCS talk was probably Tillerson's attempt to butter up to Rubio after the shellacking he got on his Putin and Syria answers.

  9. #54
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Say what you like, China manufacturers a massive amount of low quality goods. The majority of which is inferior compared to European or Western goods. Its just price orientated stupidity that keeps their exports afloat. Certainly not the quality.
    I dunno, my iPad and iPhone are pretty good.

    Let's face it, Toby: your understanding of China and who operates there and what they do is pretty far out of date.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Say what you like, China manufacturers a massive amount of low quality goods. The majority of which is inferior compared to European or Western goods. Its just price orientated stupidity that keeps their exports afloat. Certainly not the quality.
    It's not price oriented stupidity, but cost-effectiveness optimisation. Western good are more economic when you need functionality, precision or reliability, but in terms of mere durability, you're better off buying a Chinese make of fair quality at a fraction of the price, especially of products that come with warranties and that get replaced every few years anyway.

    As an aside, DOR, you mentioned Jardines, would you say that Jardines is still a good career option nowadays?

  11. #56
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    I dunno, my iPad and iPhone are pretty good.

    Let's face it, Toby: your understanding of China and who operates there and what they do is pretty far out of date.
    ipads and iphones are western designs made cheaply in China using Western machinery. Lets face it DOR your understanding of Engineering is none existent!

  12. #57
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    It's not price oriented stupidity, but cost-effectiveness optimisation. Western good are more economic when you need functionality, precision or reliability, but in terms of mere durability, you're better off buying a Chinese make of fair quality at a fraction of the price, especially of products that come with warranties and that get replaced every few years anyway.
    and its this level of knowledge that allows Chinese crap to be exported to the west in the first place.... Price orientated shortsightedness coupled with a lack of technical knowledge.

  13. #58
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funtastic View Post
    Some of their Solar panels are as good as anything made in Europe.The best Hisense TV's are comparable to top Samsung and Sony products. Lenovo Laptopsare as good as its rivals.
    The problem with photo electric cells is you won't know how good they are until their life has expired.. typically they were quoting 25 years a few years back with a depreciation in Electrical generation in the last 1/3 ....but yeh you're right there are exceptions
    Last edited by Toby; 25 Jan 17, at 22:18.

  14. #59
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    ipads and iphones are western designs made cheaply in China using Western machinery. Lets face it DOR your understanding of Engineering is none existent!
    DOR is/was a professor in economics who spent a large portion of his life working in Hong Kong.

    Despite our many rifts, I (and I believe many others here) would take his word on China's dynamics as accurate 99% of the time. Especially on economical issues.
    Anyone here, but Andy (who is MIA), would need serious links to back their claims if they oppose DOR's views on China and their capabilities.

    WRT the engineering part, I would take ANY Xiaomi smartphone over ANY Apple or Samsung with the same price. I would even take their $1.000 flagship over ANY Apple or Samsung product.

    They might lack in metallurgy, but from what I gather they also close the gap pretty quickly.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  15. #60
    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    DOR is/was a professor in economics who spent a large portion of his life working in Hong Kong.

    Despite our many rifts, I (and I believe many others here) would take his word on China's dynamics as accurate 99% of the time. Especially on economical issues.
    Anyone here, but Andy (who is MIA), would need serious links to back their claims if they oppose DOR's views on China and their capabilities.

    WRT the engineering part, I would take ANY Xiaomi smartphone over ANY Apple or Samsung with the same price. I would even take their $1.000 flagship over ANY Apple or Samsung product.

    They might lack in metallurgy, but from what I gather they also close the gap pretty quickly.
    I'm always suspicious of people who claim to be this that or the other. Especially when they feel the need to put somebody down. I'd say that amounts lack of credentials, and clearly lack of character. Good luck with your brave new China. xxx

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