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Thread: The war between Trump and the CIA

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    The war between Trump and the CIA

    It was obvious at yesterdays news conference that Trumps view of the CIA was the worst possible, ostensibly built on some fairly blatant political interference during the campaign. Trump obviously believes that the golden shower documents were released by the CIA, it seems the CIA's campaign against Trump goes deeper and further back than I thought previously.

    US intel sources warn Israel against sharing secrets with Trump administration
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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    One of the less quoted excerpts from yesterdays news conference

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    Well, I think it's pretty sad when intelligence reports get leaked out to the press. I think it's pretty sad. First of all, it's illegal. You know, these are -- these are classified and certified meetings and reports.
    I'll tell you what does happen. I have many meetings with intelligence. And every time I meet, people are reading about it. Somebody's leaking it out. So, there's - maybe it's my office. Maybe in my office because I have a lot of people, a lot of great people. Maybe it's them. And what I did is I said I won't tell anybody. I'm going to have a meeting and I won't tell anybody about my meeting with intelligence.
    And what happened is I had my meeting. Nobody knew, not even Rhona, my executive assistant for years, she didn't know - I didn't tell her. Nobody knew. The meeting was had, the meeting was over, they left. And immediately the word got out that I had a meeting.
    So, I don't want that - I don't want that. It's very unfair to the country. It's very unfair to our country; what's happened. That report should have never - first of all, it shouldn't have been printed because it's not worth the paper it's written on. And I thank the New York Times for saying that.
    I thank a lot of different people for saying that. But, I will tell you, that should never, ever happen. OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    I think it was disgraceful -- disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. I think it's a disgrace, and I say that -- and I say that, and that's something that Nazi Germany would have done and did do. I think it's a disgrace that information that was false and fake and never happened got released to the public.
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    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Didn't take long to invoke Godwin's Law...

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Well, I think it's pretty sad when intelligence reports get leaked out to the press. I think it's pretty sad. First of all, it's illegal. You know, these are -- these are classified and certified meetings and reports.
    I'll tell you what does happen. I have many meetings with intelligence. And every time I meet, people are reading about it. Somebody's leaking it out. So, there's - maybe it's my office. Maybe in my office because I have a lot of people, a lot of great people. Maybe it's them. And what I did is I said I won't tell anybody. I'm going to have a meeting and I won't tell anybody about my meeting with intelligence.
    And what happened is I had my meeting. Nobody knew, not even Rhona, my executive assistant for years, she didn't know - I didn't tell her. Nobody knew. The meeting was had, the meeting was over, they left. And immediately the word got out that I had a meeting.
    LOL, welcome to the real world of Washington DC.

    So, I don't want that - I don't want that. It's very unfair to the country. It's very unfair to our country; what's happened. That report should have never - first of all, it shouldn't have been printed because it's not worth the paper it's written on. And I thank the New York Times for saying that.
    I thank a lot of different people for saying that. But, I will tell you, that should never, ever happen. OK.
    Four years of listening to this is like listening to a 10 year old tell me why he doesn't have to do his homework... Ugh!

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    If it is about this PDF report:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byi...MzVk9ndlk/view

    Then I am with Trump on this issue.

    The damn CIA should know better than to waste my time with this BS.

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    It is credible HUMINT from a respected source (who's name has now sadly come out) and it's 'wasting your time'?

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    It is credible HUMINT from a respected source (who's name has now sadly come out) and it's 'wasting your time'?
    If you regard that as credible you have serious issues.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Didn't take long to invoke Godwin's Law...

    So true but let's take it farther for the fun of it. Dare to criticize Trump publicly now and be prepared for his fervent supporters (aka Gestapo) hunt you down on the web or in person. Actually, I don't think I am that far from the truth on that, scary as that is.

    It seems to me he missed an important lesson in grade school or the junior high level. That is the lesson where someone you have bullied one day turns around and gives you a good shot in the face. He sure could have used one because it does work.
    Last edited by tbm3fan; 13 Jan 17, at 07:35.

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    One of the less quoted excerpts from yesterdays news conference
    Donald Trump actually knows that it is illegal to reveal classified information?
    So, why did he reveal classified information himself last July regarding US military bases in Saudi Arabia?

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Donald Trump actually knows that it is illegal to reveal classified information?
    So, why did he reveal classified information himself last July regarding US military bases in Saudi Arabia?
    Geez...

    http://www.snopes.com/trump-leaks-classified-info/

    Edit: The Guardian is fake news. : )
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Doesn't need to do it himself, his guys are doing it for him.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.7588a64cae32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    If you regard that as credible you have serious issues.
    The author is known and respected; he was in Moscow; Carter Page did visit Moscow; Moscow admitted during the campaign that it was in touch with the Trump campaign... these are facts not opinion and that is why the US IC regards it as credible.

    Trumps response; "Totally made up facts by sleazebag political operatives, both Democrats and Republicans - FAKE NEWS! Russia says nothing exists. Probably..." which is self contradictory; if it is a fact it makes a claim true but you cannot 'make up fact' and to quote the accused as claiming they are not guilty when the whole point is that he is accused of collusion with them does not add to your defence.

  13. #13
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    JAN 13, 2017 @ 12:04 AM
    The Trump Dossier Is Fake -- And Here Are The Reasons Why

    Paul Roderick Gregory, CONTRIBUTOR
    I cover domestic and world economics from a free-market perspective.

    LONDON, ENGLAND - JANUARY 12: Journalists gather outside the headquarters of Orbis Business Intelligence, the company run by former intelligence officer Christopher Steele, on January 12, 2017 in London, England. Mr Steele has been named as the man who compiled the intelligence dossier on US President-elect Donald Trump, alleging that Russian security forces have compromising recordings that could be used to blackmail him. (Photo by Leon Neal/Getty Images)

    A former British intelligence officer, who is now a director of a London private security-and-investigations firm, has been identified as the author of the dossier of unverified allegations about President-elect Donald Trump’s activities and connections in Russia, according to the Wall Street Journal. A Christopher Steele, a director of London-based private intelligence company, Orbis, purportedly prepared the dossier under contract to both Republican and Democratic adversaries of then-candidate Trump. The poor grammar and shaky spelling plus the author’s use of KGB-style intelligence reporting, however, do not fit the image of a high-end London security company run by highly connected former British intelligence figures.


    The pdf file of the thirty-page typewritten report alleges that high Kremlin officials colluded with Trump, offered him multi-billion dollar bribes, and accumulated compromising evidence of Trump’s sexual escapades in Russia. That the dossier comes from former British intelligence officers appears, at first glance, to give it weight especially with Orbis’ claim of a “global network.” The US intelligence community purportedly has examined the allegations but have not confirmed any of them. We can wait till hell freezes over. The material is not verifiable.

    President-elect Trump has dismissed the dossier’s contents as false as has the Kremlin. Trump is right: The Orbis dossier is fake news.

    I have studied Russia and the Soviet Union professionally since the mid-1960s. I have visited Russia as a scholar, as the head of a multi-year petroleum legislation project, and as a business consultant close to one hundred times. My first visit was in 1965 shortly after Nikita Khrushchev’s removal. I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances in Russia, and I follow the Russian press regularly. I personally witnessed the creation in the early 90s of Russia’s giant energy concerns in the offices of the oil minister. I met with St. Petersburg officials in the early 90s but do not remember meeting then deputy mayor, Vladimir Putin. I have written and co-authored reports for the State Department, Congress, and the intelligence community; so I sort of know how these things work.

    With the brief exception of the early to late 1990s, Russia has had a non-transparent system of rule that deliberately reveals little about itself. Both insiders and outsiders must look for subtle signs and signals. Russians and Russian experts are gossip junkies. They recite their tales of who is up and who is down to those foolish enough to listen. Outside researchers must grasp for flimsy straws to write their scholarly articles and books. Despite the greater openness of contemporary Russia, we are back to Kremlinology to learn how Putin’s kleptocracy works.

    The Orbis report makes as if it knows all the ins-and-outs and comings-and-goings within Putin’s impenetrable Kremlin. It reports information from anonymous “trusted compatriots,” “knowledgeable sources,” “former intelligence officers,” and “ministry of foreign affairs officials.” The report gives a fly-on-the-wall account of just about every conceivable event associated with Donald Trump’s Russian connections. It claims to know more than is knowable as it recounts sordid tales of prostitutes, “golden showers,” bribes, squabbles in Putin’s inner circle, and who controls the dossiers of kompromat (compromising information).

    There are two possible explanations for the fly-on-the-wall claims of the Orbis report: Either its author (who is not Mr. Steele) decided to write fiction, or collected enough gossip to fill a thirty-page report, or a combination of the two. The author of the Orbis report has one more advantage: He knew that what he was writing was unverifiable. He advertises himself as the only Kremlin outsider with enough “reliable” contacts to explain what is really going within Putin’s office.


    As someone who has worked for more than a decade with the microfilm collection of Soviet documents in the Hoover Institution Archives, I can say that the dossier itself was compiled by a Russian, whose command of English is far from perfect and who follows the KGB (now FSB) practice of writing intelligence reports, in particular the practice of capitalizing all names for easy reference. The report includes Putin’s inner circle – Peskov, Ivanov, Sechin, Lavrov. The anonymous author claims to have “trusted compatriots” who knew the roles that each Kremlin insider, including Putin himself, played in the Trump election saga and were prepared to tell him.

    The Orbis report spins the tale of Putin insiders, spurred on by Putin himself, engaging in a five-year courtship of Donald Trump in which they offer him lucrative real estate deals that he rejects but leaves himself open to blackmail as a result of sexual escapades with prostitutes in St. Petersburg and Moscow (the famous “golden shower” incident). Despite his reluctance to enter into lucrative business deals, Trump “and his inner circle have accepted regular intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals,” according to the Orbis report.

    This story makes no sense. In 2011, when the courtship purportedly begins, Trump was a TV personality and beauty pageant impresario. Neither in the US or Russia would anyone of authority anticipate that Trump would one day become the presidential candidate of a major US political party, making him the target of Russian intelligence.


    The Orbis report claims, that as the election neared (July 2016), Igor Sechin, Putin’s right-hand man and CEO of Rosneft (Russia’s national oil company) offered Trump a deal that defies belief. I quote:


    “Speaking to a trusted compatriot in mid-October 2015, a close associate of Rosneft President and PUTIN ally Igor SECHIN elaborated on the reported secret meeting between the latter and Carter PAGE, of US Republican presidential candidate's foreign policy team, in Moscow in July 2016. The secret had been confirmed to him/her by a senior member of staff, in addition to the Rosneft President himself…. Sechin’s associate said that the Rosneft President was so keen to lift personal and corporate western sanctions imposed on the company, that he offered PAGE associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatized) stake in Rosneft in return PAGE had expressed interest and confirmed that were TRUMP elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted.”

    This story is utter nonsense, not worthy of a whacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion.

    To offer Trump $12 billion (the market value of 19.5 percent of Rosneft shares), in an act of near madness, would wipe out the cash that Putin desperately needed for military spending and budget deficits, all in return for a promise to lift sanctions if (and what a big “if”) Trump were elected. Rosneft, as a public company, would have to hide that the US president, who received his shares as a bribe, was a major shareholder of Russia’s largest oil company. This remarkable secret-of-secrets seems to be bandied about to an Orbis “trusted compatriot, a senior member of Sechin’s staff, and disclosed by Sechin himself. I guess there are a lot of loose lips in Rosneft offices.

    The story of the purported multi-billion-dollar bribe was picked up by the Russian liberal press directly from the Orbis report without comment but with a big question marks in the title “A 10.5 billion Euro bribe? Putin and Sechin gifted Trump 19.5% of Rosneft shares? This story has given Putin’s weak opposition the chance to accuse him of wasting national treasure on a stupid bribe.

    The $12 billion for (perhaps) lifting the sanctions makes Nikita Khrushchev’s hare-brained schemes (for which he was fired) look eminently reasonable.

    One of the few verifiable facts in the Orbis report is the key role played by Trump’s “personal lawyer” Michael Cohen. Cohen purportedly took over the negotiation of the Sechin deal, and, when the Kremlin got cold feet over its hacking campaign, it turned to Cohen to cover up the operation, meet with the Kremlin’s Presidential Administration, and make illicit payments to shut up and move the hackers to Bulgaria. A key meeting was held in Prague in August of 2016 with Cohen accompanied by three colleagues. The meetings took place in the offices of a Russian quasi-state organization, Rossotrudnichestvo.


    Cohen has denied any such meetings with the Kremlin Presidential administration and claims never to have visited Prague. According to the Orbis report, Cohen engaged in potential criminal activities, such as illicit payoffs to hackers and the buying of their silence. I doubt that he will let such accusations pass.

    Another noteworthy claim of the Orbis report is that Vladimir Putin personally directed Russia’s intervention in the 2016 campaign: “The TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin. Its aim was to sow discord both within the US itself, but more especially within the Transatlantic alliance.” The Orbis report claims that Putin personally controlled the dossier compiled on Hillary Clinton and held by his spokesperson, Peskov. He ordered that any disposition of the Clinton file would be decided by him personally.

    I have picked out just a few excerpts from the Orbis report. It was written, in my opinion, not by an ex British intelligence officer but by a Russian trained in the KGB tradition. It is full of names, dates, meetings, quarrels, and events that are hearsay (one an overheard conversation). It is a collection of “this important person” said this to “another important person.” There is no record; no informant is identified by name or by more than a generic title. The report appears to fail the veracity test in the one instance of a purported meeting in which names, dates, and location are provided. Some of the stories are so bizarre (the Rosneft $12 billion bribe) that they fail the laugh test. Yet, there appears to be a desire on the part of some media and Trump opponents on both sides of the aisle to picture the Orbis report as genuine but unverifiable.

    After reading the Orbis report I got the queasy feeling that it may have influenced intelligence community’s unclassified report. Leaks of classified bits by NBCNews and the Washington Post suggest the findings were, in part, based on British intelligence and spies. I wonder if the reference is to Putin’s role, which the intelligence report characterized as direct. This is a matter the new administration must look into.


    We have reached a sad state of affairs where an anonymous report, full of bizarre statements, captures the attention of the world media because it casts a shadow over the legitimacy of a President-elect, who has not even taken the oath of office. For example, the Trump dossier is tonight’s lead item on German state television and on BBC. False news has become America’s international export to the world media
    . http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrode.../#119abb0355f1
    Last edited by TopHatter; 13 Jan 17, at 20:19.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  14. #14
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    It is easy to say such things as "This story is utter nonsense, not worthy of a whacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion" when you do not bother to explain why it is so crazy... Is he suggesting that Igor Sechin would not like the sanctions removed? Presumably not... As we know Carter Page did visit Moscow so I fail to see how such an allegation can be regarded as "a whacky conspiracy theory".

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    It is easy to say such things as "This story is utter nonsense, not worthy of a whacky conspiracy theory of an alien invasion" when you do not bother to explain why it is so crazy... Is he suggesting that Igor Sechin would not like the sanctions removed? Presumably not... As we know Carter Page did visit Moscow so I fail to see how such an allegation can be regarded as "a whacky conspiracy theory".
    Of the very few actually verifiable facts given (Cohen/Prague) these have been proven false. A private consultancy firm in the UK (Orbis) possibly compiled it, given 4Chans few provable facts it's likely larges sections of it were lifted from 4Chan trolls by Orbis. The Soccer quote is a dead giveaway that that particular part was written by either an American, or New Zealander over 50.
    It carries as much water as Disinfomedia. I realize you're heavily invested in hawks controlling the US govt. but this report is on the same level as 'fake Moon landings'.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

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