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Thread: EU break-up no longer unthinkable

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    EU break-up no longer unthinkable

    Germany's Gabriel says

    Germany's insistence on austerity in the euro zone has left Europe more divided than ever and a break-up of the European Union is no longer inconceivable, German Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel told Der Spiegel magazine.Gabriel, whose Social Democrats (SPD) are junior partner to Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives in her ruling grand coalition, said strenuous efforts by countries like France and Italy to reduce their fiscal deficits came with political risks"I once asked the chancellor, what would be more costly for Germany: for France to be allowed to have half a percentage point more deficit, or for Marine Le Pen to become president?" he said, referring to the leader of the far-right National Front."Until today, she still owes me an answer," added Gabriel, whose SPD favours a greater focus on investment while Merkel's conservatives put more emphasis on fiscal discipline as a foundation for economic prosperity.The SPD is expected to choose Gabriel, their long-standing chairman who is also economy minister, to run against Merkel for chancellor in September's federal election, senior party sources said on Thursday.Asked if he really believed he could win more votes by transferring more German money to other EU countries, Gabriel replied: "I know that this discussion is extremely unpopular.""But I also know about the state of the EU. It is no longer unthinkable that it breaks apart," he said in the interview, published on Saturday."Should that happen, our children and grandchildren would curse us," he added. "Because Germany is the biggest beneficiary of the European community - economically and politically."

    by Paul Carrel; Editing by Stephen Powell
    Last edited by Toby; 08 Jan 17, at 20:15.

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Can't read the article pal. I'd have to subscribe..

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    It was never unthinkable.. just unlikely. But then a UK breakup was unthinkable just 7 years ago..

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    It may long term be better for those of us who would welcome European unity to rip up the EU and start again. The EU in it's current form reminds me of what Talleyrand said of the restored Bourbons; "They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing". The Brexit vote doesn't seem to have caused any 'wake up call' on the need for reform which it so clearly should have done. Those institutions which cannot adapt to the needs and aspirations of those people they claim to serve are doomed.

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    Meh, we could have a breakup that isn't really a breakup and go back to the EU as it was several decades ago.
    There is not all that much opposition to the EU the way it used to be.

    However are the current bunch of European politicians willing to voluntarily dial back the EU to save it in an orderly way?
    *Insert sounds of laughter*

    So yeah, my bank savings in euro's could be f'ed in advance.

    Would not be surprised if I lose half of what I have and lose my job with the likely chaos that would erupt.
    Like getting divorced without ever having married.
    In my defense: "It was a shotgun marriage and I did not get her pregnant".

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zara View Post
    a UK breakup was unthinkable just 7 years ago..
    Where have you been hiding... I've been "thinking" it for the last 30 years and I doubt I'm on my own.

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    It may long term be better for those of us who would welcome European unity to rip up the EU and start again. The EU in it's current form reminds me of what Talleyrand said of the restored Bourbons; "They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing". The Brexit vote doesn't seem to have caused any 'wake up call' on the need for reform which it so clearly should have done. Those institutions which cannot adapt to the needs and aspirations of those people they claim to serve are doomed.
    Too many fat pensions to rip anything up from within....The change, when it comes will come via the electorate. They're the only ones brave enough to pull the plug on this house of cards.

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJV View Post
    Meh, we could have a breakup that isn't really a breakup and go back to the EU as it was several decades ago.
    There is not all that much opposition to the EU the way it used to be.

    However are the current bunch of European politicians willing to voluntarily dial back the EU to save it in an orderly way?
    *Insert sounds of laughter*

    So yeah, my bank savings in euro's could be f'ed in advance.

    Would not be surprised if I lose half of what I have and lose my job with the likely chaos that would erupt.
    Like getting divorced without ever having married.
    In my defense: "It was a shotgun marriage and I did not get her pregnant".
    What about 1980,.... with countries that actually pay their way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    What about 1980,.... with countries that actually pay their way
    I would have to dive into boring (for me) EU history to see what they have signed.

    At first glance it would have to be before the Maastricht treaty (1992).
    However it wouldn't surpise me if it would even go much further back.

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    It may long term be better for those of us who would welcome European unity to rip up the EU and start again. The EU in it's current form reminds me of what Talleyrand said of the restored Bourbons; "They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing". The Brexit vote doesn't seem to have caused any 'wake up call' on the need for reform which it so clearly should have done. Those institutions which cannot adapt to the needs and aspirations of those people they claim to serve are doomed.
    Of all the people I don't understand you, why you don't like this EU to disintegrate. You are (were) against more political power and this is where EU is headed. UK pulling out is somehow a bad thing for UK? Sure, losing the market is bad for some period of time, but staying in such an organization is not a bad thing? How?
    Last edited by Doktor; 08 Jan 17, at 21:16.
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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Can't read the article pal. I'd have to subscribe..
    Okay, here's the Independent
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7509711.html
    Basically, the British economy is the worlds top performer amongst advanced economies post Brexit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Okay, here's the Independent
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7509711.html
    Basically, the British economy is the worlds top performer amongst advanced economies post Brexit.
    A kinda sensationalist headline.
    How can they say the UK is the worlds top performer post Brexit when Article 50 hasn't been even served, let alone separation?

    The Brexit vote honeymoon is drawing to a close. The consequences, good or ill will begin this year.

    More important for Europe is the Dutch and French elections in the coming months

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJV View Post
    I would have to dive into boring (for me) EU history to see what they have signed.

    At first glance it would have to be before the Maastricht treaty (1992).
    However it wouldn't surpise me if it would even go much further back.
    I'd say before Greece, Spain and Portugal came in. Which is about 1980. Lets face it with the exception of the Northern European countries that arrived later. The rest are corrupt basket cases that should never have been allowed in. Its bad enough coping with Italian Gov Corruption.

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    Senior Contributor Toby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Okay, here's the Independent
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7509711.html
    Basically, the British economy is the worlds top performer amongst advanced economies post Brexit.
    Thanks, good article. So basically all the so called experts were talking crap, Sounds about right. The problem these idiots have is they only talk to each other and so as with any form of institution, they become institutionalized
    Definitely too optimistic for the Doom and Gloom camp.....

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