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2017 American Political Scene

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  • BF,

    The only thing more depressing than this is the inevitability that he will not only be defended by his supporters, but that his popularity with GOP voters will barely be dented.
    depends on how you define "barely be dented", i guess. he's gone from 89% support among the GOP faithful following inauguration to 79% support today.

    as reference, Nixon went from 91% GOP support at the start of Watergate in Feb 1973 to 73% support in May 1973 to 50% support by the time he resigned in Aug 1974.

    basically, once you peel away the top layer of support, the bottom layer will not move...and that was in an era of much less partisanship. in this case, absent Trump literally shooting a veteran in the face, he will probably continue to keep 75% support.

    there ARE no standards with Trump, not when it comes to morality and empathy. or even shame.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

      Fuck me, is there no bottom here? Is there no depth to which he won't sink? Not only abusing the death of his Chief of Staff's son, but abusing the man's sense of duty by humiliating him in public. Disgraceful.

      The only thing more depressing than this is the inevitability that he will not only be defended by his supporters, but that his popularity with GOP voters will barely be dented. I guess when you vote for a draft dodger who attacks the record of a former POW & insults a 'gold star' family you have thrown any pretense of standards out the door.
      Nope, nothing The Trumpet says or does will shake the base. It apparently is just too painful to admit they got played like bongos by Moscow. Decades of calling Dems "pinkos" and soft on communism ... too painful to admit failing enemy ID basics.
      Trust me?
      I'm an economist!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DOR View Post
        Nope, nothing The Trumpet says or does will shake the base. It apparently is just too painful to admit they got played like bongos by Moscow. Decades of calling Dems "pinkos" and soft on communism ... too painful to admit failing enemy ID basics.
        DOR did you read this article and the attached charging documents?
        http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...administration

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          Fuck me, is there no bottom here? Is there no depth to which he won't sink? Not only abusing the death of his Chief of Staff's son, but abusing the man's sense of duty by humiliating him in public. Disgraceful.
          Well to be fair, he had pretty much plumbed these depths before the election took place. He insulted a gold star family and boasted about sexually assaulting women before the election. It is time to accept that roughly half the country has sunk to these depths with him and that is the reality of modern day America (and perhaps the rest of the world).

          I don't agree with the whole Russian conspiracy nonsense. Yeah the Russians tried to influence the election. I'm sure they've tried before too. But Trump did not get elected because of them. That is a cop out. The reality is that people are sick enough to not feel outraged by all the sh1t he says and does (as long as he also says some other things they really like). Way more difficult to accept something like that than blame the Russians - the perennial bogeymen.
          Last edited by Firestorm; 18 Oct 17,, 19:42.

          Comment


          • firestorm,

            I don't agree with the whole Russian conspiracy nonsense. Yeah the Russians tried to influence the election. I'm sure they've tried before too. But Trump did not get elected because of them. That is a cop out.
            when you are talking about the razor thin margins by which Trump won crucial swing states, absolutely, they could have very well swung the election. this was a bigger effort than they have previously tried. (Comey was the bigger factor, though.)

            I do agree that HRC should not have been in a position where she should have lost by razor thin margins, though. with this clown, she SHOULD have absolutely crushed him. even then, I can't blame her too much: she ran a respectable, competent, conventional campaign; she made no major errors while she was running. her fault was that she ran as a calm technocrat who would make small fixes to the system, when it turns out crucial sectors of the electorate wanted nothing more than to break the system.

            well, we're getting a taste of what "breaking the system" entails, and i don't think anyone is exactly satisfied with the result...including the breaker.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • When you have razor thin margins, practically anything can be pointed to as a deciding factor. It's really unlikely that some small amount of Russian ads is going to have a bigger impact than the multi billions spent by other interest parties, though.
              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

              Comment


              • There is also the question of how much TV news organizations helped Trump during his campaign, albeit in a left-handed way, and how they've continued to magnify marginal issues into major stories.

                Trump is practically a solo business plan for major outlets, such as CNN, MSNBC and FOX News.

                "CNN Had a Problem. Donald Trump Solved It.

                Inside the strange symbiosis between Jeff Zucker and the president he helped create."

                By JONATHAN MAHLER APRIL 4, 2017 "


                A long, but revealing read.


                https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/m...d-it.html?_r=0
                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                Comment


                • Overview of the Clintons pay to play conspiracy with the Russians.
                  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...ing-trump.html

                  Comment


                  • lol, that's a pretty big jump between what evidence is out there and "pay to play"...
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                      DOR did you read this article and the attached charging documents?
                      http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...administration
                      Even better: I read these
                      http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...m-russia-deal/ (false)
                      http://www.snopes.com/hillary-bill-c...ctions-speech/ (unproven)
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                        You are reading obsolete information. Time to get up to speed.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          BF,



                          depends on how you define "barely be dented", i guess. he's gone from 89% support among the GOP faithful following inauguration to 79% support today.

                          as reference, Nixon went from 91% GOP support at the start of Watergate in Feb 1973 to 73% support in May 1973 to 50% support by the time he resigned in Aug 1974.

                          basically, once you peel away the top layer of support, the bottom layer will not move...and that was in an era of much less partisanship. in this case, absent Trump literally shooting a veteran in the face, he will probably continue to keep 75% support.

                          there ARE no standards with Trump, not when it comes to morality and empathy. or even shame.
                          It would appear not. Some enterprising soul from AP decided to call up about 20 families of servicemen who have been killed since Trump took office. Contrary to Trump's boasting a significant minority had either had no call or no contact of any sort. As you have pointed out before, he lies about everything all the time, even easily uncovered lies & even when there is zero reason.

                          If the alleged comments to the wife of that dead soldier are true then the bottom goes even lower. Apparently didn't even know his name. Its been interesting tracking the reactions to this from the self-appointed patriots:

                          *It didn't happen
                          *Something about Hilary
                          *It doesn't matter
                          *Something about Obama
                          *The Democrat Congresswoman reporting this is black
                          *Here are some other black Democrats in Congress who are bad
                          *Something about Obama

                          It really is scary to see an entire demographic decide that reality is optional.

                          The Dems need to get over themselves & get a decent candidate for and a decent campaign for 2020.
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                          Comment


                          • Hillary got over 48% of the vote and raised $2 billion. She ran a fine campaign with no real errors. She's being unfairly bench-marked against Obama.

                            It's unlikely that there will be massive blow-outs in the medium-term, because US voters are pretty partisan. Even assuming you ran another Dem (and this is totally hypothetical with no real evidence), Trump is still guaranteed to get 40% of the vote, and probably won't budge much below 44.


                            Aside: keeping track of the outrage-of-the-day has no meaningful impact on actual budget issues. I'm far more concerned about the expected tax reform, which is going to fuck me over one way or another.
                            Last edited by GVChamp; 19 Oct 17,, 14:49.
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              It really is scary to see an entire demographic decide that reality is optional.
                              Welcome to the Club. I've been in the Club since i joined this forum.
                              Winter is coming.

                              Comment


                              • GVChamp,

                                Hillary got over 48% of the vote and raised $2 billion. She ran a fine campaign with no real errors. She's being unfairly bench-marked against Obama.
                                yup, doubt Sanders would have done better, despite all the talk about all the hidden enthusiastic liberals that just couldn't pull for Clinton.

                                It's unlikely that there will be massive blow-outs in the medium-term, because US voters are pretty partisan.
                                on the other hand, the existing, default demographics usually point to narrow-but-growing Democratic wins, at least at the Presidential level. Trump essentially won by scrambling the system with his "outsider" status-- by polarizing the right people at the right time. his narrow win actually represents a blow-out in GOP terms, because they were working at a disadvantage to begin with.

                                this may be my partisan bias talking, but i honestly think this is sort of an all-or-nothing gamble, that WON in an improbable way against a complacent Democratic electorate. there won't be this complacency in 2020, that's for sure.
                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                                Comment

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