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  • Originally posted by zraver View Post
    Would not matter if you did have a subscription, they didn't cover it so there is nothing to read on it in the NYT.
    You asked for one link, I gave several. The answer is clear, mainstream media did cover it. Did they ask for Hillary's head on a platter? No they did not
    Last edited by antimony; 24 Feb 17,, 22:24.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
      Jumping in the thread for a quick sec, I would agree on this, but certain classes of people hear the Social Justice message loudly and it utterly alienates them from the Economic Justice message. The Hard Hatters voted Democratic, but they really, really, really hated hippies. They hated hippies more than I hate Millennials.

      It's extremely difficult for some people to trust the Democrats to look out for their economic interests when they take such a hard-line stance on social justice: The California Senator thinks it is outrageous that we might deport immigrants who commit crimes. Hillary Clinton said all police sergeants are racist, implicitly. The Democrats alienate a lot of people with talk like that, especially since most Americans still think English should be the national language.

      This is way different than 2008, when Obama ran on "marriage is one-man, one-woman." You can still be progressive, and not be aggressively leading the charge on every social justice issue that pops up.
      Is that not what I am also saying? Dems need to ignore the social justice stuff for 4 years, till they get back full control. The country is moving leftwards socially anyway.

      Actually the should also dial up the Christian compassion bit and get the evangelicals on their side.

      Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
      Also, economic justice is still a tough message to win on. People don't want economic justice, they want jobs. Economic justice sounds like communism. Only Millennials and hippies like communism, and remember, Hard Hatters don't like Millenials and communism.
      That is what I meant, the "we are losing our jobs" argument.

      The Hard hatters should prepare to be disappointed. Their jobs, whatever Trump does, are not coming back, except maybe some infrastructure jobs here and there. Yes, whatever he does, may also take away the jobs of the millennials. Trump has already given China a big by pulling out of the TPP. If there are trade wars the US might be pushed in a corner and more jobs will go. What happens to jobs in Detroit or Kansas that export auto and railroad components to Mexico if NAFTA is jeopardized? What happens to Boeing if suddenly orders get cancelled? What about US soybeans exports to China?

      In fact, you see Trump's blustering about jobs he is saving? You know what those companies are doing, right? For the tech projects, they are outsourcing them as soon as they can, to avoid hitting any future regulatory roadblocks. For They are putting in place automation features in these new plants that will take less manpower. If they are successful, they will push those technologies to older plants, replacing even more people there.

      The Dems need to communicate these messages aggressively, along with benefits of Obamacare. A number of republicans districts went blue in Nov. They will be up for grabs in 2018.

      Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
      EDIT: Also would add that losing the Presidency for a term isn't that big of a deal. It's getting blown out in the State races and having a disadvantage in the House that will kill the Dems. Their other problem is if Repubs are ever able to turn a large portion of Hispanic voters, which will kill the Dems pretty fast. The Dems can't seem to lock-down and turn out the Hispanic vote, no matter how hard they try.
      When the President is both hilariously incompetent and worryingly malevolent, then a 4 year term is a cause for worry at home and abroad.
      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

      Comment


      • Originally posted by antimony View Post
        You asked for one link, I gave several. The answer is clear, mainstream media did cover it. Did they ask for Hillary's head on a platter? No they did not
        Nor did they want Podesta's head on a platter despite him trying and failing to hide real links to Russia.They were in the bag for her and soft selled everything that should have gotten her and her cotterie bounced into prison. The NYT, the self proclaimed paper of record wouldn't even touch the Bill Clinton inc email, or the CGI pay for play email. They flat out ignored them.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by antimony View Post

          When the President is both hilariously incompetent and worryingly malevolent, then a 4 year term is a cause for worry at home and abroad.
          Yup, hence Trump's win... we just had 8 years of malevolent and incompetent leadership that saw the global order collapse. If the IRS had not squashed the Tea Party we likely would be in the second term of president Rommney.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Yup, hence Trump's win... we just had 8 years of malevolent and incompetent leadership that saw the global order collapse. If the IRS had not squashed the Tea Party we likely would be in the second term of president Rommney.
            What global order collapsed? Obama left with a rating in the high-mid 50s.

            Trump started his term at around 40%. The dude cannot get anything right, from an important Executive Order to key appointments to his inauguration poster to making flubs about non existent terrorist attacks. His staff need to keep him busy with happy news so that he does not erupt on twitter. He refuses to look at briefing documents which are long, do not have enough maps and pictures and express a dissenting view. He can't even handle diplomatic calls, so the VP, SecState, DefSec and others have to run around cleaning up.

            I would actually ask Congress to not impeach him even if they could, first for the fact that the GOP will endure the brunt of opposition to his stupid policies (repeal and replace is now retret and rethink), and also for the entertainment value. The regular tweets, especially this morning's tweets, are hilarious.
            "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

            Comment


            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
              I would agree if the Artemenko/Sater/Cohen link were a 'one off' but it is not. On the one hand there is a President who denies having anything to with the Muscovites, himself and his campaign while on the other we have a boatload of information telling the opposite story....
              Interesting stuff, but I fail to see how it proves collusion to hack the DNC, which was the starting point of our exchange. You cite all sorts of connections between Trump and Russians, or Muscovites, as you call them, which you've obviously culled from news reports, and end up with not even a respectable conspiracy theory. I don't believe in conspiracy theories until I have hard evidence from credible sources to back them up.

              Perhaps you've been following the story about the FBI telling Reince Priebus that the NYT story about Trump's people meeting often with Russian intelligence agents is inaccurate. The FBI told him the meetings were not often and it's not known if any of the Russians who met with his people were intelligence agents. So, you see, the story may turn out differently than you think.


              If you believe there is 'nothing to see here' that's your prerogative and fine by me but you must forgive me if I beg to differ.
              I don't choose to accept your conclusion precisely because the data you offer to support it contains a number of allegations and innuendos.


              Whether you like it or not we are at war and Trump and his Muscovite contacts and the election interference is just another part of the battlefield.
              On this I can agree, if by "we" you mean the US.


              My dear fellow I have Muscovite family - with real Muscovite passports and born in Moscow living with my family home with my Pater and Brothers family. I have Muscovite speaking friends and colleagues whom I would trust with my life (and have done so occasionally). That is not a problem for me. I am not denying it and have no quarrel with the Muscovite people in general; Andrey here is a fine person I am sure and I would help him if he asked and it was within my power. But I do not scurry off to Moscow to meet people (one of whom died in his car on Christmas Eve - 24th Dec one) while working for a Presidential campaign which denies having anything to do with Moscow.
              I'm not sure what you gain by this patronizing comment. Just the same, no resume, no matter how impressive, can turn conjecture into something other than what it is.
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

              Comment


              • Whether you like it or not we are at war and Trump and his Muscovite contacts and the election interference is just another part of the battlefield.
                I guess you guys can break relations with us then :(

                As I say if you think all this is 'normal' that's your view and I can respect that but I hope you can understand why we in Ukraine where troops are dying and fighting constantly may have cause for concern. Nor did all the contacts on the Moscow end get wiped out.
                America isn't bound by the Ukraine.

                Forgive my phraseology. It was the subject of much speculation and gossip within Government and diplomatic circles.
                So you are referencing a fake discussion about an imaginary tape.

                Perhaps you could point out where I said that? If not please refrain from putting your words in my mouth. I am irate that you have a President who colluded with a nation which regard yours and mine as enemies to influence his election. If you are not irate about that I must question your patriotism.
                A foreigner calling people unpatriotic who don't wish to bankroll the mafia regime in Kiev (shoe fits). I'm quite happy the Donald is in office, and as a patriotic American I am quite happy the dead weight around the world is trembling that the ride is over. The Ukrainian people, residents of the Baltics, Syrian islamists, and others fall into the dead weight class. It helps that your leaders put their foots into their mouths thinking Hillary was a sure thing

                more consultation and advice had been done before the Order was drawn up it would have achieved it's objective and not been ruled illegal by the courts. As such to claim it was 'roled out superbly' etc is at the best an overstatement.
                Yawn. Just part of the judicial hustle.

                A very amusing joke it was too considering that Moscow did try to interfer in the electoral process. Ha ha.
                Quite a funny joke. Jokes are like frogs in that when one dissects it, they tend to die
                Last edited by troung; 25 Feb 17,, 18:57.
                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                  . Hillary Clinton said all police sergeants are racist, implicitly. The Democrats alienate a lot of people with talk like that, especially since most Americans still think English should be the national language.


                  Do we need Wabbit rules on alternative facts?


                  Corey Stewart misleadingly says Hillary Clinton, Ralph Northam 'label police as racists'
                  By Sean Gorman on Tuesday, July 26th, 2016 at 10:08 a.m.

                  Corey Stewart, Donald Trump’s Virginia campaign chairman, recently laid blame on Democrats for the July 7 sniper shootings that left five Dallas police officers dead and nine wounded.

                  "Liberal politicians who label police as racists - specifically Hillary Clinton and Virginia Lt. Governor Ralph Northam - are to blame for essentially encouraging the murder of these police officers tonight," Stewart, chairman of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors, wrote in a Facebook post shortly after midnight on July 8.

                  (The rest of the article points out how this is pure bullshit.)

                  http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...inton-ralph-n/
                  Trust me?
                  I'm an economist!

                  Comment


                  • Three things to know about Kevin Hassett, the new chair of the Council of Economic Advisers:

                    1) If you had followed his advice in 1999, when he wrote “Dow 36,000,” you’d be half way there by now (18+ years later), and up 0.6% per annum, in real terms. By way of comparison, the prime bank lending rate during that time averaged just over 3.25% (real).

                    2) He really does think the US economy can grow at 4% p.a. by making consumers pay a national consumption tax to cover lower corporate and property tax rates.

                    3) He believes in free trade agreements such as the TPP and enhanced immigration.
                    Trust me?
                    I'm an economist!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      Three things to know about Kevin Hassett, the new chair of the Council of Economic Advisers:

                      1) If you had followed his advice in 1999, when he wrote “Dow 36,000,” you’d be half way there by now (18+ years later), and up 0.6% per annum, in real terms. By way of comparison, the prime bank lending rate during that time averaged just over 3.25% (real).

                      2) He really does think the US economy can grow at 4% p.a. by making consumers pay a national consumption tax to cover lower corporate and property tax rates.

                      3) He believes in free trade agreements such as the TPP and enhanced immigration.
                      This is a guy who believes that unicorns poop ice cream ( whereas they actually poop slushies). Pipe dreams of growth at 4% with 1 trillion of infrastructure spending? Now that is the kind of nonsense that would normally make Fiscal conservatives cringe
                      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by antimony View Post
                        This is a guy who believes that unicorns poop ice cream ( whereas they actually poop slushies). Pipe dreams of growth at 4% with 1 trillion of infrastructure spending? Now that is the kind of nonsense that would normally make Fiscal conservatives cringe
                        Cash for clunkers.
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by antimony View Post
                          Pipe dreams of growth at 4% with 1 trillion of infrastructure spending? Now that is the kind of nonsense that would normally make Fiscal conservatives cringe


                          What is 'Gross National Product - GNP'

                          Gross national product (GNP) is an estimate of total value of all the final products and services produced in a given period by the means of production owned by a country's residents.

                          http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/...#ixzz4ZjBjzDBT
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • What the press has largely ignored about Trump’s latest pronouncement is an obvious truth that undermines its own narrative: someone who was safely in Vladimir Putin’s pocket wouldn’t run around saying things like this. While liberal America may have forgotten recent history, Russia certainly hasn’t: provoking a nuclear arms race with an outclassed, economically weak Soviet Union was Ronald Reagan’s winning strategy in the 1980s. Tech and wealth are two key American advantages over Russia now as they were over the Soviet Union then; Trump’s message here is that he intends to follow in Reagan’s footsteps to use these strengths to advance American power, with the inevitable result of marginalizing one of Russia’s primary sources of power and prestige. Putin’s ramshackle Russia is no more capable of matching an American nuclear buildup than Brezhnev’s sclerotic Soviet Union could keep up with the United States—and Putin knows it.

                            Whether it will work is an entirely different question, but there can be little doubt that Trump’s core global strategy will destroy any illusions in Moscow, or anywhere else, that Russia is a peer competitor of the United States. A Trump administration is going to be four years of hell for Russia: a massive American doubling down on shale production along with a major military buildup. Trump is, in other words, a nightmare for Putin and a much, much bigger threat to Putin’s goals than President Obama ever was or wanted to be.

                            If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:

                            Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could
                            Blocking oil and gas pipelines
                            Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions
                            Cutting U.S. military spending
                            Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran
                            Continues
                            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                            Leibniz

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                              This is the kind of sober analysis we need. It may be highly debatable, but at least it advances something thoughtful in contrast to the MSM's shrill apoplexy.

                              The last paragraph is worth repeating.

                              America needs an intellectually solvent and emotionally stable press to give this president the skeptical and searching scrutiny that he needs. What we are getting instead is something much worse for the health of the republic: a blind instinctive rage that lashes out without wounding, that injures its own credibility more than its target, that discredits the press at just the moment where its contributions are most needed.
                              Trump could help himself in this regard by not indulging in untrue statements. There may be a method to this madness, but when I hear Trump supporters around here (south Texas) say the one thing they're disappointed in are his false statements, I wonder whether he really has something up his sleeve, or he's just plain misinformed. As one neighbor said to me, he accuses the media of fake news and then turns around and says fake stuff...WTF.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                                Pretty much what I've been saying on this forum for a while. Putin has also once again shown what a wily operator he is. He engineered hacking to try to get an undermined and weakened President Hillary Clinton. When that didn't work out he immediately encouraged the Trump/Russian agent narrative to undermine Trump. Now that's petering out he's switching to naive/unstable/not credible Trump.

                                In Chinese we call this pushing the canoe along with the flow of the water. Apparently Putin is a master boatswain.

                                Of course the media was all too ready to be Putin's puppets, not because they want to, or that they are enemies of the people, but because they are morons.

                                Some of the members here who I thought should know better bought into the narrative. Intelligence agencies that should know better bought into the narrative. National security officials who should have known better bought into the narrative.

                                What does this tell us? It tells us that while our technical, material and operational capabilities have grown tremendously during the past 25 years, primacy has eroded some of our strategic acumen. Now that we are once again entering a multi-polar world, this acumen needs to be sharpened.

                                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                Trump could help himself in this regard by not indulging in untrue statements. There may be a method to this madness, but when I hear Trump supporters around here (south Texas) say the one thing they're disappointed in are his false statements, I wonder whether he really has something up his sleeve, or he's just plain misinformed. As one neighbor said to me, he accuses the media of fake news and then turns around and says fake stuff...WTF.
                                I still have serious concerns about Trump. Those concerns are not centered around intent, but ability to execute. JAD's post highlights some of his personal missteps. I find even more concerning the organizational ones highlighted by slow progress on nominee confirmation and legislative agenda, rampant leaks from the national security and intelligence apparatus. This disorganization reflects problems with Trump organizations at large. There's a history around this and it is now a significant national vulnerability. I hope McMasters and Mattis start taking the situation in hand ASAP.
                                Last edited by citanon; 26 Feb 17,, 01:03.

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