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  • Originally posted by zraver View Post
    As far as I can tell, her death is no different than another criminal dying in the commission of a crime
    Wow...so what you're saying is that this Nazi punk gets to be judge, jury and executioner? What crime was she committing?
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
      That is the concern from my POV - that some of these 'entitled victims' decide that marching with guns isn't enough. That won't bring a civil war, but it could get a lot of people hurt.
      Like I said, there will be tragedies like Charlottesville, just as there has been for decades, centuries, really, no question about it.

      It's the "uprising" and "civil war" predictions that make me roll my eyes in disgust and frustration.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        Wow...so what you're saying is that this Nazi punk gets to be judge, jury and executioner? What crime was she committing?
        Didn't say that at all, he's gonna go to jail for the rest of his life. I said she died in the commission of a crime. The protests/counter protest had been declared an illegal assembly, she was marching with a group known for violence aka antifa/the black bloc. I am not gonna shed a tear when violent people or those who support violence against their fellow citizens die regardless if they align Left or Right.

        Comment


        • I am not gonna shed a tear when violent people or those who support violence against their fellow citizens die regardless if they align Left or Right.
          being in the general proximity as anti-fa doesn't make you anti-fa, considering there were church-groups, ACLU, and other non-violent civil organizations at the counter-protests as well.

          there is proof that James Fields is a terrorist AND a white-nationalist; what proof is there that Heather Meyer was anti-fa or "in the commission of a crime"? as far as i know, the unlawful assembly order was targeted at the Unite the Right rally, which was subsequently moved.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
            GVChamp,



            too many unknowns at this point, i think. the median result will be a fairly significant level of House losses for the GOP, although I don't know if it will be enough to overcome a pretty big GOP lead.

            of course, the huge x-factor at this point is the economy. "a fairly significant level of House losses for the GOP" is PREDICATED on the economy continuing gang-busters as it is now. even a minor recession will result in huge losses for the GOP, if not now, then certainly by 2020. that was one of my biggest concerns had HRC won, and it's even more true given the economic team in the WH now.

            i think what should terrify the GOP is if the Dems actually re-take Congress. i doubt the next Democratic President or Congress will be eager to talk about a technocratic administration, using previously conservative plans for healthcare, or talking about Grand Bargains. there will be ENORMOUS pressure from the Dem base to "do unto them as they did unto us", complete with the Dem version of REDMAP, the North Carolina shenanigans, and the Gorsuch nomination. i don't think the Senate filibuster will survive such an atmosphere.

            Mitch McConnell is old but not ancient, there's a good chance that he will still be around to rue some of his actions.
            No major disagreements, it's just interesting that Gallup shows the Dems taking a hit in their popularity, not the Repubs. And the Repubs have NOT hit a floor. They've been less popular in the recent past.

            As a general note, it's also surprising that neither of the parties have much popularity, and both have been taking big hits the last couple decades.
            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

            Comment


            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
              I said she died in the commission of a crime. The protests/counter protest had been declared an illegal assembly, she was marching with a group known for violence aka antifa/the black bloc.
              Jesus Christ dude, seriously??
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                Once again he is the choice of a minority of the electorate.
                He is the President because enough people across enough parts of the country wanted him instead of Hillary. The country deserves whatever he brings on to them.
                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                Comment


                • GVChamp,

                  As a general note, it's also surprising that neither of the parties have much popularity, and both have been taking big hits the last couple decades.
                  that was one of the curious items i noted at the end of this election: parties are less popular than ever, but partisans are motivated more by fear of the other party than support for their own.

                  i suspect it has to do a combination of technological/sociological trends towards hyper-individualization. most organized civic groups have been declining in sustained participation for decades now.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    Didn't say that at all, he's gonna go to jail for the rest of his life. I said she died in the commission of a crime. The protests/counter protest had been declared an illegal assembly, she was marching with a group known for violence aka antifa/the black bloc. I am not gonna shed a tear when violent people or those who support violence against their fellow citizens die regardless if they align Left or Right.
                    I now know without a doubt you are beyond the pale with that comment and unworthy of further acknowledgement.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                      being in the general proximity as anti-fa doesn't make you anti-fa, considering there were church-groups, ACLU, and other non-violent civil organizations at the counter-protests as well.
                      She was not in the general promximity, she was in the middle of an antifa march.

                      [quote]there is proof that James Fields is a terrorist AND a white-nationalist;[/qute]

                      And he will be deservedly tried, convicted and depending on any Federal Civil Rights prosecution possibly executed. 2nd Degree Murder in VA can have a life sentence imposed and only warrants a basic public defender appointment. He won't get a top dollar legal team unless the feds try him for capitol murder (civil rights murder).

                      what proof is there that Heather Meyer was anti-fa or "in the commission of a crime"?
                      Middle of a black block march in an illegal assembly.

                      as far as i know, the unlawful assembly order was targeted at the Unite the Right rally, which was subsequently moved.
                      Nope, the government cannot target just one group, and cannot target one group becuase another group has gotten violent (hecklers Veto). More specifically, Unite the Right had a permit and the local/state government was subject to a federal injunction. To be content neutral, both sides were subject to the order. Antifa attacked becuase they don't even bother to fight ideas with ideas, they espouse direct action. They are a violent extremist organization and its members should be prosecuted for terrorism.

                      Comment


                      • Now let me understand. Charlottesville = Univ of Virginia.
                        The basic protest is over and against that city's proposed removal of a statue with renowned "CSA" Genl Robert E Lee on horseback from a public park.
                        Can this statue be purchased by private citizens , secured, transported and moved onto private property elsewhere ? (Is it art ?)

                        Why would a statue of Lee become an identifying rallying point for Neo-Nazis, Aryan idealists and white supremists ? (I can understand the KKK's perception of why.)

                        Why were these hate groups "that no longer have any place in the fabric of America" be granted a permit to march through the City of Charlottesville towards that site filled with its majority of non-residents (City of Charlottesville) after the decision was already made by the city ? 🤔
                        Real eyes realize real lies.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PeeCoffee View Post
                          Can this statue be purchased by private citizens , secured, transported and moved onto private property elsewhere ? (Is it art ?)
                          It can be and the removed CSA monuments usually are removed to a museum. However certain people don't want it moved. They want it on public display.

                          Originally posted by PeeCoffee View Post
                          Why would a statue of Lee become an identifying rallying point for Neo-Nazis, Aryan idealists and white supremists ? (I can understand the KKK's perception of why.)
                          Robert E. Lee embodies the Confederacy, which enshrined slavery in its Constitution, more than any other person associated with it.

                          Originally posted by PeeCoffee View Post
                          Why were these hate groups "that no longer have any place in the fabric of America" be granted a permit to march through the City of Charlottesville towards that site filled with its majority of non-residents (City of Charlottesville) after the decision was already made by the city ? ��
                          The First Amendment, which guarantees that government must uphold the Freedom of Speech. That means any group, regardless of their size or message, must be granted the rights of other groups.
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                            It can be and the removed CSA monuments usually are removed to a museum. However certain people don't want it moved. They want it on public display.


                            Robert E. Lee embodies the Confederacy, which enshrined slavery in its Constitution, more than any other person associated with it.

                            The First Amendment, which guarantees that government must uphold the Freedom of Speech. That means any group, regardless of their size or message, must be granted the rights of other groups.
                            There's a lot of people on my Facebook feed right now that think the 1st Amendment shouldn't apply to hate groups, apparently. People calling for German-style de-nazification laws, and saying that any flags are automatically incitement and thus banned.

                            Thankfully SC doesn't agree with them.

                            Robert E Lee doesn't embody the Confederacy. He embodies the South, which tried to secede through the Confederacy. He was specifically chosen by President Grant to be the embodiment of reconciliation between the North and the South. Were the Nobel Prize a thing in his day, he would've likely won one.


                            The guy's legacy gets way too white-washed with the Southern Redemption, but he's just not in the same category as other Confederate leaders and was explicitly chosen for that reason to be the example of the Southern Gentleman. I personally don't think there's a single man, woman, or child who has the moral authority to declare that wrong, nor will there ever be, because none of them fought in the Civil War.
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              Antifa attacked becuase they don't even bother to fight ideas with ideas, they espouse direct action. They are a violent extremist organization and its members should be prosecuted for terrorism.
                              I do not have see anything wrong with both lots of extremist nutcases demonstrating. The crime or 'terrorism' comes from ramming your car into one lot or the other and killing someone and injuring others. It appears that this time it was the wannabe Nazi's who were responsible for the crime so calling for the wannabe commies to be done for terrorism in this case seems out of place to say the least. Both sides are as bad as each other in my view and quite alot of these 'marches' and 'demonstrations' are just excuses for a good punch up.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                                Robert E Lee doesn't embody the Confederacy. He embodies the South, which tried to secede through the Confederacy. He was specifically chosen by President Grant to be the embodiment of reconciliation between the North and the South. Were the Nobel Prize a thing in his day, he would've likely won one.


                                The guy's legacy gets way too white-washed with the Southern Redemption, but he's just not in the same category as other Confederate leaders and was explicitly chosen for that reason to be the example of the Southern Gentleman. I personally don't think there's a single man, woman, or child who has the moral authority to declare that wrong, nor will there ever be, because none of them fought in the Civil War.
                                "To describe this man as an American hero requires ignoring the immense suffering for which he was personally responsible, both on and off the battlefield. It requires ignoring his participation in the industry of human bondage, his betrayal of his country in defense of that institution, the battlefields scattered with the lifeless bodies of men who followed his orders and those they killed, his hostility toward the rights of the freedmen and his indifference to his own students waging a campaign of terror against the newly emancipated. It requires reducing the sum of human virtue to a sense of decorum and the ability to convey gravitas in a gray uniform.

                                There are former Confederates who sought to redeem themselves—one thinks of James Longstreet, wrongly blamed by Lost Causers for Lee’s disastrous defeat at Gettysburg, who went from fighting the Union army to leading New Orleans’s integrated police force in battle against white supremacist paramilitaries. But there are no statues of Longstreet in New Orleans.* Lee was devoted to defending the principle of white supremacy; Longstreet was not. This, perhaps, is why Lee was placed atop the largest Confederate monument at Gettysburg in 1917, but the 6-foot-2-inch Longstreet had to wait until 1998 to receive a smaller-scale statue hidden in the woods that makes him look like a hobbit riding a donkey. It’s why Lee is remembered as a hero, and Longstreet is remembered as a disgrace.

                                The white supremacists who have protested on Lee’s behalf are not betraying his legacy. In fact, they have every reason to admire him. Lee, whose devotion to white supremacy outshone his loyalty to his country, is the embodiment of everything they stand for. Tribe and race over country is the core of white nationalism, and racists can embrace Lee in good conscience.

                                The question is why anyone else would.
                                "


                                https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...al-lee/529038/
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                                Comment

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