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  • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
    So according to multiple US news outlets Israel was the source of the intel regarding laptop bombs, further damaging relationships between international intelligence communities and the US intelligence community.

    I mean really? Who would want to trust you with anything?
    Telling Russia (who had an airliner blown up by a sodacan bomb), that ISIS had moved on to laptop bombs when the Russian and Israeli intelligence services are already in contact in order to deconflict when Israel bombs Assad and Hamas is hardly damaging. For all we know, the Israeli's had already shared the intel with the Russians either deliberately or via Russian agents inside the Israeli intelligence services.

    Comment


    • citanon,

      You're making up excused for a permissive environment of rampant illegal leaks to the press by the intelligence community.
      no, i am directly addressing your comment re: dysfunctional relationship. yeah, there's a dysfunctional relationship-- and most of that was started/caused by this administration, starting roughly a month after his election.

      The white House can say whatever​it wants. It can fire Comey. It did not break the law.
      agreed...for now. if enough evidence turns up that there was obstruction of justice involved, though...but we'll see. and we digress.

      These leaks did break the law.

      Do you think it's ok for our spooks to break the law just because they feel insulted? What's next? What about turning traitor to their country? Would that be ok if the insults continued?
      i already discussed this in post #1556. would you say the same about the leaks that brought down the previous National Security Adviser? bottom-line, this whole episode pointed to POTUS casually discussing items that probably shouldn't have been brought up the way it did. if this public leaking causes the Administration to re-think how it directly engages with adversaries, then it's a wash in my book.

      They absolutely should be investigated for foreign intelligence links.
      by all means. either way, it does not reflect well on how the Trump Administration is running its own shop, lol.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/u...use-staff.html

        At a Besieged White House, Tempers Flare and Confusion Swirls

        By GLENN THRUSH and MAGGIE HABERMAN
        MAY 16, 2017

        WASHINGTON — The bad-news stories slammed into the White House in pitiless succession on Tuesday, leaving President Trump’s battle-scarred West Wing aides staring at their flat screens in glassy-eyed shock.

        The disclosure that Mr. Trump divulged classified intelligence to Russian officials that had been provided by Israel was another blow to a besieged White House staff recovering from the mishandled firing of James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director.

        And the day was capped by the even more stunning revelation that the president had prodded Mr. Comey to drop an investigation into Michael T. Flynn, his former national security adviser. That prompted a stampede of reporters from the White House briefing room into the lower press gallery of the White House, where Mr. Trump’s first-line defenders had few answers but an abundance of anxieties about their job security.

        The president’s appetite for chaos, coupled with his disregard for the self-protective conventions of the presidency, has left his staff confused and squabbling. And his own mood, according to two advisers who spoke on the condition of anonymity, has become sour and dark, and he has turned against most of his aides — even his son-in-law, Jared Kushner — describing them in a fury as “incompetent,” according to one of those advisers.

        As the maelstrom raged around the staff, reports swirled inside the White House that the president was about to embark on a major shake-up, probably starting with the dismissal or reassignment of Sean Spicer, the press secretary.

        Mr. Trump’s rattled staff kept close tabs on a meeting early Monday in which the president summoned Mr. Spicer; the deputy press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders; and the communications director, Michael Dubke, to lecture them on the need “to get on the same page,” according to a person briefed on the meeting.

        By the end of the day Tuesday, it seemed that Mr. Spicer had, for the moment, survived. People close to the president said Mr. Trump was considering the firing of several lower-level staff members, including several hired by Reince Priebus, the White House chief of staff, while weighing a plan to hand most day-to-day briefing responsibilities to Ms. Sanders.

        Even as Mr. Trump reassured advisers like Mr. Spicer that their jobs were safe on Monday, he told other advisers that he knew he needed to make big changes but did not know which direction to go, or whom to select.

        The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, watched as Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser, briefed reporters at the White House on Tuesday. Credit Doug Mills/The New York Times
        In the meantime, the White House hunkered down for what staff members now realize will be an extended siege, not a one- or two-day bad news cycle.

        The stress was taking its toll. Late Monday, reporters could hear senior aides shouting from behind closed doors as they discussed how to respond after Washington Post reporters informed them of an article they were writing that first reported the news about the president’s divulging of intelligence.

        As they struggled to limit the fallout on Monday, Mr. Spicer and other Trump aides decided to send Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser, to serve as a surrogate.

        They realized that selecting such a high-ranking official would in some ways validate the story, but they wanted to establish a credible witness account exonerating the president from wrongdoing — before the barrage of Twitter posts they knew would be coming from Mr. Trump on Tuesday morning.

        The White House Counsel’s Office worked with the national security adviser, an Army general, on framing language, producing a clipped sound bite: “The story that came out tonight as reported is false.”

        As he was working on his statement, General McMaster, a former combat commander who appeared uncomfortable in a civilian suit and black-framed glasses, nearly ran into reporters staking out Mr. Spicer’s office.

        “This is the last place in the world I wanted to be,” he said, perhaps in jest.

        As the general approached microphones on the blacktop in front of the West Wing, one of his deputies responsible for coping with the fallout, Dina Powell, could be seen peering behind the pack of reporters to see how her boss’s statement was being received.

        On Capitol Hill, there were signs that Republicans, who mostly held the line after Mr. Comey’s ouster, were growing alarmed by Mr. Trump’s White House operation and impatient for something to be done about it.

        “There need to be serious changes at the White House, immediately,” said Senator Patrick J. Toomey, a Pennsylvania Republican who wants Mr. Trump to appoint a Democrat to head the F.B.I. On Tuesday, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, called on Mr. Trump to operate with “less drama.”

        In his comments to reporters on Monday, Senator Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican close to some in the White House, was more explicit.

        “Obviously they’re in a downward spiral right now,” he said, “and they’ve got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that’s happening.”

        A dozen of Mr. Trump’s aides and associates, while echoing Mr. Trump’s defiance, privately agreed with Mr. Corker’s view. They spoke candidly, in a way they were unwilling to do just weeks ago, about the damage that the administration’s standing has suffered in recent weeks and the fatigue that was setting in after months of having to defend the president’s missteps, Twitter posts and unpredictable actions.

        The latest crisis comes at the worst possible moment for Mr. Trump’s team. His national security and foreign policy staffs have been spending much of their time planning for his coming eight-day trip to the Middle East and Europe — his first major overseas trip as president, and an opportunity, they thought, to reset the narrative of his presidency after the lingering controversy of Mr. Comey’s sudden dismissal last week.

        There is a growing sense that Mr. Trump seems unwilling or unable to do the things necessary to keep himself out of trouble and that the presidency has done little to tame a shoot-from-the-hip-into-his-own-foot style that characterized his campaign.

        Some of Mr. Trump’s senior advisers fear leaving him alone in meetings with foreign leaders out of concern he might speak out of turn. General McMaster, in particular, has tried to insert caveats or gentle corrections into conversations when he believes the president is straying off topic or onto boggy diplomatic ground.

        This has, at times, chafed the president, according to two officials with knowledge of the situation. Mr. Trump, who still openly laments having to dismiss Mr. Flynn, has complained that General McMaster talks too much in meetings, and the president has referred to him as “a pain,” according to one of the officials.

        In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president for divulging classified intelligence to the Russians: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of his briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or the knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would harm American allies.


        Mr. McMaster all but said that publicly from the briefing room lectern.

        “The president wasn’t even aware where this information came from,” Mr. McMaster said. “He wasn’t briefed on the source or method of the information either.”
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          3- New report says the DNC hack was exactly what Wikileaks said it was, an inside job not a Russian job. The leaker took two high velocity shut up pills in the back....
          Z

          I wouldn't rely on that report. Parents are denying the so-called pvt investigator's claims about Rich's Wikileaks contacts. A lot of false reports circulating among conspiracy theorists.
          Last edited by JAD_333; 17 May 17,, 05:36.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

          Comment


          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
            citanon,
            i already discussed this in post #1556. would you say the same about the leaks that brought down the previous National Security Adviser? bottom-line, this whole episode pointed to POTUS casually discussing items that probably shouldn't have been brought up the way it did. if this public leaking causes the Administration to re-think how it directly engages with adversaries, then it's a wash in my book.
            POTUS has perogative to discuss intelligence matters because he's POTUS. He was elected to make those decisions regardless of how bureaucrats feel about them. Flynn had to go but it would have been better had personnel taken their concerns to the proper channels or to Congress as proper whistleblowers.

            If you feel the need to blow the whistle, you need to come out into the open and face the consequences.

            This leaking without end, without consequence is deeply corrosive and will harm our government for a long time to come.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
              JAD,

              "unintentionally say too much in meetings", yes. but from the WaPo article it sounded very much like Trump was using the intel to just casually brag about the great capabilities he has at his fingertips.
              Kind of reminded me of an ordinary kid who heard some good gossip and then went to the cool kids, who he wants to be part of, and tells them the juicy gossip. The kid never really gets in though.

              Trump is his own worst enemy. Always has been just now on a bigger stage for all to see and to critique. I don't know what he was thinking when he thought he could bring his "business" savvy to the WH but it sure looks like a business merger that will never work ie AOL and Time Warner, Kmart & Sears. Clearly no Mr. Smith going to Washington here.
              Last edited by tbm3fan; 17 May 17,, 07:13.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                This leaking without end, without consequence is deeply corrosive and will harm our government for a long time to come.
                Yes it is. Internationally both your bureaucracy and more especially your intelligence agencies are increasingly viewed with suspicion.
                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                Leibniz

                Comment


                • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  i do agree that this is one of the least disciplined Administrations I've ever seen-- i don't just mean on security issues, but his absolutely leaky-as-a-sieve staff, intent on using the media to further their palace intrigue. i mean stuff like the Bannon vs Priebus backbiting, Bannon vs Kushner arguments, Trump's discontent with Spicer, staff's discontent with Trump suddenly announcing stuff or throwing someone under the bus, etc.
                  Regarding this....as I recall on eof the lesser discussed points which came out of the Obama-Trump post-election face to face meeting was the lack of realization of the Trump Team that all of the West Wingers went with Obama...i.e., that the day to day folks who make the Executive work are all political appointees. There are professionals in the WH Staff (Communications Office, Secret Service, Support Services, etc.) the policy personnel are appointed by the incoming Administration. So many of the new team are the vaunted "outsiders".

                  Perhaps the leakage are a result of not knowing the full impact of those Security briefings and training they sat through to get hired? They do not have the experience in public service where you know about what you do or do not say almost by instinct.
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • pari,

                    Yes it is. Internationally both your bureaucracy and more especially your intelligence agencies are increasingly viewed with suspicion.
                    let's just say that this has not been my experience. YMMV.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...d82_story.html

                      Putin is the living embodiment of troll face...lol.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        pari,



                        let's just say that this has not been my experience. YMMV.
                        Asty, the whole of Washington has gone ga ga over a fake news story flatly contradicted by everyone present in the room. Your intelligence is wholesale leaking any old secret if it can in any way damage Trump. The matrix has you.
                        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                        Leibniz

                        Comment


                        • pari,

                          Asty, the whole of Washington has gone ga ga over a fake news story flatly contradicted by everyone present in the room.
                          this contradicts your next statement

                          Your intelligence is wholesale leaking any old secret if it can in any way damage Trump.
                          either the leaks are accurate, or they're not. if they're not accurate, then no one would be worrying over this, the Administration wouldn't force the National Security Adviser to provide several non-denial denials, Congressional Republicans wouldn't be trying to dodge the issue, and Trump wouldn't be braying on Twitter about how he has the "absolute right to share facts with Russia".

                          The matrix has you.
                          lol okay, let me take some more blue pills then.

                          in any case, i'll await evidence that US allies are now wary of intel-sharing with the US because of the leaks, and not because of Trump.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            pari,



                            this contradicts your next statement
                            No it does not.
                            1: The matters that were discussed were secret and were leaked by your bureaucracy or intel community. The swamp.

                            2: What is patently false and is propagated by you is that the discussion was in any way improper.
                            The only thing that is improper is the leaking, something that is now taking on endemic proportions within your community and which you appear totally happy about. As I say, the matrix has you.

                            You're better than this.
                            Last edited by Parihaka; 17 May 17,, 16:40.
                            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                            Leibniz

                            Comment


                            • Washington Post May 10

                              [Deputy Attorney General Rod J.]Rosenstein threatened to resign after the narrative emerging from the White House on Tuesday evening cast him as a prime mover of the decision to fire Comey and that the president acted only on his recommendation, said the person close to the White House, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

                              But the “person close to the White House” who made the claim without using his or her name was contradicted by none other than Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein himself. The next day he said, “I’m not quitting” when asked by reporters. “No,” he said to the follow-up question of whether he had threatened to quit.
                              Also May 10

                              Last week, then-FBI Director James B. Comey requested more resources from the Justice Department for his bureau’s investigation into collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government, according to two officials with knowledge of the discussion.
                              The Justice Department spokeswoman immediately responded that the claim was false, and her quote was included in the story:

                              Justice Department spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores said reports that Comey had requested more funding or other resources for the Russia investigation are ‘totally false.’ Such a request, she said, ‘did not happen.’
                              The next day under oath, acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe repeatedly denied that the probe into Russia was undersourced or requiring any additional funds. In response to one question about whether the FBI had sufficient resources to investigate, he said:

                              ‘If you are referring to the Russia investigation, I do. I believe we have the adequate resources to do it and I know that we have resourced that investigation adequately,’ acting FBI director Andrew McCabe told lawmakers, adding that he was unaware of any request by the agency for additional resources.
                              Previous Washington Post stories sourced to anonymous “officials” have fallen apart, including Josh Rogin’s January 26 report claiming that “the State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned” as “part of an ongoing mass exodus of senior Foreign Service officers who don’t want to stick around for the Trump era.”

                              The story went viral before the truth caught up. As per procedure, the Obama administration had, in coordination with the incoming Trump administration, asked for the resignations of all political appointees. While it would have been traditional to let them stay for a few months, the Trump team let them know that their services wouldn’t be necessary. The entire story was wrong
                              Rogin also had the false story that Steve Bannon had personally confronted Department of Homeland Security’s Gen. John F. Kelly to pressure him not to weaken an immigration ban. Take it away, Kelly:

                              ‘It was a fantasy story,’ Kelly said. Of the reporter, he said: ‘Assuming he’s not making it up… whoever his sources are, are playing him for a fool.’
                              Each of these stories were explosive breaking news that served an anti-Trump narrative but later turned out to be false
                              .
                              I'll let the Federalist continue for the smackdown of the latest fake news.
                              Tips For Reading Washington Post Stories About Trump Based On Anonymous Leaks
                              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                              Leibniz

                              Comment


                              • I am seldom in agreement with Vladimir Putin but miracles do happen
                                Vladimir Putin says he is willing to hand over a transcript of a discussion between Donald Trump and senior Russian officials.
                                President Trump allegedly disclosed highly classified information about "terrorism and airline flight safety" while meeting foreign minister Sergey Lavrov and ambassador Sergey Kislyak last week.
                                However, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Mr Trump did not pass over secrets and dismissed the scandal as "political schizophrenia".
                                He added that he was "concerned because it's hard to imagine what the people who produce such nonsense can come up with next."
                                Mr Putin said: "What surprises me is that they are shaking up the domestic political situation using anti-Russian slogans.
                                "Either they don't understand the damage they're doing to their own country, in which case they are simply stupid, or they understand everything, in which case they are dangerous and corrupt."
                                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                                Leibniz

                                Comment

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