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  • Who said I got the information from a Minister?
    I'm saying you made it up.

    Now I would say that Muscovy is probably is more corrupt. Ukraine is a smaller country with a smaller population and no vast oil and gas reserves so having a smaller economy is hardly surprising but our economy is growing and reserves growing while the Muscovite reserve fund is likely to be empty this year.
    Evidently the Ukraine manages to fall beneath Russia's low bar on corruption.

    I understand that if a politician can direct a judge to give a decision as he/she desires justice and the long history of Common Law from the Anglo Saxons to the Court of Equity is over.
    Not what is going on. Usual forum shopping with lefties running to the 9th circuit to get it to do something odd. We have a 4 - 4 split on the SC, once we get a 9th judge hopefully the 9th circuit will be struck down (as usual). Nothing wicked.

    Should I not be outraged when an attempt is made by made a foreign country that labels the US as an 'enemy' interferes in the democratic process there? My people have been dying in the field against a common threat for getting on for two years.
    Allegedly Russia exposed slimy dealing in the DNC/HRC Campaign through a few DNC/HRC emails; underwhelming. HRC lost because she was a shit candidate and a fool. We voted in a guy who thankfully looks willing to kick deadweight to the curb; thankfully your nation is on that list. Though right now they are putting down that looted money into trying to buy influence in DC

    Foreign Policy logo
    The Road to Power in Ukraine Runs Through Donald Trump

    When Kiev can’t reliably get hold of the White House, even Miss Universe contestants will start conducting diplomacy.
    11 HOURS AGO
    CATEGORIES: DISPATCH
    Isaac Webb
    Reid Standish
    Featured image
    https://www.google.com/amp/foreignpolic ... trump/amp/
    KIEV and WASHINGTON — A lot of Ukrainian is being heard around Washington these days.

    Since the U.S. election in November, Ukrainian officials have descended on the District, but the pace has picked up noticeably since Congress returned to session in January: One recent trip brought more than 70 Ukrainian politicians to Congress at once. And a congressional staffer who works on Ukraine and Russia policy told Foreign Policy that not a day goes by where he doesn’t see Ukrainian lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

    One reason for this sudden influx is the outsized role played by the United States in Ukrainian domestic politics: Recognition and support from influential Americans can make or break a politician’s career. “There is the perception of the U.S. as a kingmaker in Ukraine,” said Vasyl Filipchuk, a former diplomat and the current chairman of the International Centre for Policy Studies in Kiev. “So when [Donald] Trump was elected, all groups of influence — the elite — decided that they must establish or re-establish links with the new administration.”

    But another reason is the lack of clarity about the Trump administration’s policy toward Ukraine and about who is responsible for communications between the two countries. And so, lawmakers from across Ukraine are flooding into Washington, in the hopes that they will be able to take advantage of this policy vacuum and make an impact — or at least get in on the action.

    “There has been so much uncertainty and anxiety in Kiev surrounding Trump and what he will change with Russia and Ukraine,” said Balazs Jarabik, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “This is creating an opportunity for other politicians to shop their own initiatives.”

    The transition from Barack Obama’s White House to the Trump administration has been tumultuous for countries around the world, thanks to both mixed messages in public and White House staffing issues that have made it impossible to get clarification in private. But nowhere have the messages been more confusing than in Ukraine, where a more than two-year conflict that has killed nearly 10,000 people shows no signs of stopping. The outbreak of intense fighting in late January threatened to break the fragile Minsk II peace agreements, and recent Russian provocations, including recognition of passports from Ukraine’s breakaway regions, are deepening tensions.

    The Trump administration’s contradictory statements on Russia have only increased anxiety in Kiev. Trump has said he wants to pursue more cooperation, particularly on Syria and counterterrorism — but his administration has also said new cooperation isn’t currently possible, and key members of his team, including Vice President Mike Pence and Defense Secretary James Mattis, have emphasized the threat posed by the Kremlin. In the absence of a clear line from the White House, Kiev has looked elsewhere to shore up support. Senate Republicans, under pressure from Russia hawks John McCain and Lindsey Graham, have sounded the alarm about the Kremlin in recent days and called for supporting Kiev. But the Ukrainian government is also scrambling to establish a reliable line of communication with the White House, both to ensure it can plead its case and to avoid being undermined by any one of the lawmakers currently looking to capitalize off the uncertainty.

    “We want to understand who is responsible for the foreign policy of the United States in the European region,” Valeriy Chaly, Ukraine’s ambassador to Washington, told FP last week. “Currently, it is not obvious who this person will be.”

    Meanwhile, the hollowing-out of the upper echelons of U.S. diplomatic institutions has opened the door to amateur — and, in some cases, rogue — diplomacy.

    One example of such informal Ukrainian liaising was described last weekend by the New York Times. It reported that Andrey Artemenko, a Ukrainian lawmaker representing Oleh Lyashko’s Radical Party, took relations with the Trump administration into his own hands, working with Trump’s personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, and a longtime Trump business associate, Felix Slater, to deliver a secret “peace plan” to former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. Artemenko, a marginal but ambitious politician with an affinity for Trump who has ties to the far-right military-political group “Right Sector,” seems to have acted without authorization from the Ukrainian government. Ukrainian officials were livid with Artemenko, who has since been kicked out of his political faction in parliament and is being investigated for treason by Ukraine’s General Prosecutor. Since the revelation was first reported, Artemenko has denied passing a peace plan to Trump officials and has since threatened to sue the New York Times for libel.

    In the days that followed, other proposed peace plans for eastern Ukraine have come out of the woodwork. Former President Viktor Yanukovych, who lives in exile in Russia after fleeing Ukraine following the Maidan protests in 2014, spoke with Western journalists on Tuesday and announced a nine-page proposal for ending the war. According to Der Spiegel and the Wall Street Journal, which interviewed Yanukovych, the former president had sent the plan to Trump and the leaders of Russia, Germany, France, and Poland. On Wednesday, Radio Free Europe reported that Konstantin Kilimnik, a former associate of Paul Manafort, Trump’s erstwhile campaign chairman who worked for Yanukovych, has also drawn up a peace plan. What’s more, Kilimnik said he briefed Manafort on the plan during the 2016 U.S. election.

    Other interventions have been motivated more by electoral considerations than anything: Ukraine has presidential elections slated for 2019, and jostling among top political players is well underway. On Feb. 2, Yulia Tymoshenko, a former prime minister and a vocal opponent of President Petro Poroshenko, met in Washington with both Vice President Pence and Trump, who reportedly assured her that his administration would “not abandon” Ukraine and that it would not lift sanctions on Russia until it withdraws its troops from the country. Politico reported that Poroshenko’s team was “apoplectic” about the off-the-cuff meeting. Chaly, the Ukrainian ambassador, however, denied having a visceral reaction to the informal meeting and said Tymoshenko and Poroshenko were working toward the same goal together. “They can compete for political influence and ratings in Kiev, but they do not compete when it comes to the defense and security of Ukraine,” Chaly said.

    But even as it disapproves of these unofficial exchanges, the Ukrainian government itself has also sought to create its own back channels to reach Trump. Kiev is “making use of informal contacts,” said Taras Berezovets, a political consultant and director of the Fund for National Strategies, a Ukrainian think tank.

    One rumored interlocutor in this relationship is Oleksandra Nikolayenko, a Ukrainian model and former Miss Universe contestant who is married to Phil Ruffin, a close friend of the president. Trump was best man at Ruffin’s wedding to Nikolayenko in 2008, and Ruffin has been a faithful supporter of Trump’s campaign from the beginning, donating $1 million to Trump’s Make America Great Again PAC just two weeks after it was launched. According to one source close to the Ukrainian presidential administration, Nikolayenko told Chaly that she could put him in touch with “anyone in the administration” and that she had already started setting up meetings for him. Chaly told FP that he had met Nikolayenko at an “informal event with the new American leadership” and that she was later invited to the Ukrainian Embassy but denied that she had helped establish any new contacts.

    Other unlikely conduits to Trump that have emerged in recent months include the billionaire businessman Victor Pinchuk, who published an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal in December calling on Ukraine to make “painful compromises” in order to resolve the conflict in the east. When it was published, the Poroshenko administration shot back, saying it wouldn’t back down from Russian aggression. Less than a month later, however, despite intentionally ignoring an invitation to attend a breakfast hosted by Pinchuk at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Poroshenko took a meeting with former U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates that Pinchuk had personally organized — reportedly through his connections to officials in the Trump administration — in the hope that Gates, though not a part of the Trump White House, might be able to facilitate a relationship with the president’s entourage.

    Whether through traditional channels of communication, informal ones, or a combination of both, Ukraine has had some successes reaching Trump and his inner circle. Chaly has played a central role in this effort, establishing contact with Trump staffers following his victory and meeting with Trump and other members of his team in person in the days leading up to the president’s inauguration. In early February, Poroshenko became one of the first foreign leaders to speak with Trump, shortly after an escalation of fighting along the front lines in Ukraine’s eastern regions, which marked an impressive achievement for Ukrainian diplomacy. Filipchuk, the former diplomat and think tank chairman, who has written in favor of making compromises to achieve peace that many in Ukraine have found provocative, said he was surprised and impressed by the extent to which Chaly has been able to establish relationships with the Trump administration.

    After a confusing first few weeks, the Poroshenko administration seems to have fallen back on more formal methods of communication. The Ukrainians are in the process of trying to arrange a visit from a delegation led by Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin to rekindle working ties with the new administration. Poroshenko and Pence met at the Munich Security Conference on Feb. 18, and the Ukrainians are hoping to arrange a visit to Washington for Poroshenko in March. But the Trump administration’s disorganization has already taken a toll, by fueling domestic political rivalries that could threaten the country’s stability.

    “There is a gathering domestic political storm in Kiev,” said Jarabik, the Carnegie political analyst. “And soon it will hit.”

    FP
    Last edited by troung; 03 Mar 17,, 04:42.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

    Comment


    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
      lol pari, it's such a "Democrat talking point" that -breitbart- people were threatening to walk if Milo didn't get the boot.

      bottom-line- here's someone whom thinks age of consent is a "stupid one size fits all policing of culture" because there are "sexually mature" teens out there. or hell, this is all one big joke and we shouldn't take any of this at face value because it's "dry British sarcasm".

      if you wish to use Milo for his words of wisdom, be my guest; i'll also be sure to copy and paste THAT jewel of wisdom and/or "dry British sarcasm" for, ah...nuance, context, and history.
      Fabulous.
      So we're now past banning commentators and sites simply because they contradict your own prejudices and hatred of conservatives. Perhaps we might even get some discussions out of you rather than sermons and attempts at sarcasm.
      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

      Leibniz

      Comment


      • AG Jeff Sessions, not one of my favorite conservatives, has become the Democrats' target du jour. Nancy Pelosi has called for him to resign because she believes he lied during his confirmation hearings about meeting with Russian government officials during the presidential campaign. Pelosi seems to have an affliction common to Democrats these days: reading comprehension.

        The question Sessions was asked came from Senator Patrick Leahy in a written questionnaire. Here it is:

        “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after Election Day?”

        The question doesn't simply ask if he met with Russian officials, but whether he met with them to "discuss the 2016 election". Sessions answered "no".

        In other words, he could have been telling the truth even though he met with the Russian ambassador to the US twice, once in his office and another time at an event. Anyone who knows Washington knows that foreign ambassadors are always on the prowl to meet with USG officials and important senators, which Sessions was at the time. Unless someone can produce transcripts of the meetings to prove otherwise, Session's answer should be taken at face value.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

        Comment


        • Originally posted by snapper View Post
          Sessions now lied about meeting with Kislyak? This is BS. Agent Orange should be pulled.
          Seems you're also having a problem with reading comprehension?
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
            Seems you're also having a problem with reading comprehension?
            Seems like the Democrats has reached into their asses to pull out more things and the media is doing their best to make it stink again.

            Apparantly the bruhaha is about this back and forth clip between Franken and Sessions:



            And who cares about reading or hearing comprehension, JAD!

            The Demos and some people on this board have their minds made up and are desperately hoping to throw something on the wall and praying something sticks.
            Last edited by YellowFever; 03 Mar 17,, 09:02.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              Fabulous.
              So we're now past banning commentators and sites simply because they contradict your own prejudices and hatred of conservatives. Perhaps we might even get some discussions out of you rather than sermons and attempts at sarcasm.

              You may have right a right to advocate breaking the law but when it comes to child abuse forget it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                Seems like the Democrats has reached into their asses to pull out more things and the media is doing their best to make it stink again.

                Apparantly the bruhaha is about this back and forth clip between Franken and Sessions:



                And who cares about reading or hearing comprehension, JAD!

                The Demos and some people on this board have their minds made up and are desperately hoping to throw something on the wall and praying something sticks.
                Payback for the last 8 years i'd guess. Republicans certainly deserve it. They treated the Dems as if they were a threat to the nation's well-being, and now they ask for understanding and working together?

                From what I've seen, people on both sides have their minds made up. Scorched earth will be the default, as it was for the last 6 years or so, and Dems will go after Trump every bit as rabidly as Republicans went after Obama and Clinton. Trump had his fist up his own bunghole with the hole Birth Certificate circus, only fair to return the favor.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LongLurker View Post
                  Payback for the last 8 years i'd guess. Republicans certainly deserve it. They treated the Dems as if they were a threat to the nation's well-being, and now they ask for understanding and working together?

                  From what I've seen, people on both sides have their minds made up. Scorched earth will be the default, as it was for the last 6 years or so, and Dems will go after Trump every bit as rabidly as Republicans went after Obama and Clinton. Trump had his fist up his own bunghole with the hole Birth Certificate circus, only fair to return the favor.
                  It is indeed war, not just within the US but worldwide.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by troung View Post
                    I'm saying you made it up.
                    You are free to say that and I repeat what I am told and believe.



                    Originally posted by troung View Post
                    Evidently the Ukraine manages to fall beneath Russia's low bar on corruption.
                    Not sure that is an answer even but you might care to look at Navalny's latest video before judging Muscovite standards;




                    Originally posted by troung View Post
                    Allegedly Russia exposed slimy dealing in the DNC/HRC Campaign through a few DNC/HRC emails; underwhelming. HRC lost because she was a shit candidate and a fool.
                    1. I agree Hilary was an idiot.
                    2. ALL your intelligence agencies agree that there were Muscovite interference in aid of Trumpet. You know better? Prove it.

                    Comment


                    • Sessions must go because A. You cannot have a credible Attorney General who has publicly perjured himself and more importantly B. The Muscovites could have him gone whenever it pleased them by saying (truly or falsely) whatever he spoke about that suits their purposes; he is compromised. It appears the son in law also met with the Muscovites as well... but why are they all lying about this single issue? There lies the real problem.

                      Comment


                      • regarding the Sessions brouhaha (a good way to put it): it is MOST LIKELY nothing, but with this administration's previous more substantial Russia ties as well as previous poor actions-- Sessions should have recused himself WAY before this brouhaha came up)-- no one can be really surprised at the result.

                        Dems are baying for his head but won't get it, the circumstances aren't as extreme as those surrounding Flynn.

                        i'd love to see that special prosecutor go through all of this with a fine tooth comb, though.

                        longlurker,

                        now they ask for understanding and working together?
                        the GOP is under no 2009-Obama like pretense of bipartisanship kumbaya to begin with.

                        re: what the Dems are doing, if this was all reversed and HRC was in Trump's situation, does anyone seriously doubt that the GOP would be drawing up charges of impeachment already? leaving aside the very relevant national security issues at stake and putting on a pure partisanship hat, it's time, and more than time, for the GOP to eat its own medicine...especially when you're talking about someone like Trump, whom deserves it in spades.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          re: what the Dems are doing, if this was all reversed and HRC was in Trump's situation, does anyone seriously doubt that the GOP would be drawing up charges of impeachment already? leaving aside the very relevant national security issues at stake and putting on a pure partisanship hat, it's time, and more than time, for the GOP to eat its own medicine...especially when you're talking about someone like Trump, whom deserves it in spades.
                          In other words, all good, nothing to see here, people.
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • You are free to say that and I repeat what I am told and believe.
                            Which is of course made up so you can run around claiming Russian control over our elected President. I'm simply calling you a liar.

                            Sessions must go because A. You cannot have a credible Attorney General who has publicly perjured himself and more importantly B. The Muscovites could have him gone whenever it pleased them by saying (truly or falsely) whatever he spoke about that suits their purposes; he is compromised. It appears the son in law also met with the Muscovites as well... but why are they all lying about this single issue? There lies the real problem.
                            To be on the safe side we need to exile them all.

                            ====
                            The Demos and some people on this board have their minds made up and are desperately hoping to throw something on the wall and praying something sticks.
                            Get ready for 4 to 8 years of this.
                            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                              Sessions must go because A. You cannot have a credible Attorney General who has publicly perjured himself and more importantly B. The Muscovites could have him gone whenever it pleased them by saying (truly or falsely) whatever he spoke about that suits their purposes; he is compromised. It appears the son in law also met with the Muscovites as well... but why are they all lying about this single issue? There lies the real problem.

                              You cannot commit perjury for not answering a question that was not asked. Leahy asked Sessions whether he discussed the campaign with any Russian officials. Sessions said "no".

                              Had the question been simply, "did you meet with any Russian officials during the course of the campaign", the right answer would have been "yes".

                              The Russians could find no better way to bolster US unity than to lie about what Sessions and their ambassador discussed in order to destroy Sessions.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                re: what the Dems are doing, if this was all reversed and HRC was in Trump's situation, does anyone seriously doubt that the GOP would be drawing up charges of impeachment already? leaving aside the very relevant national security issues at stake and putting on a pure partisanship hat, it's time, and more than time, for the GOP to eat its own medicine...especially when you're talking about someone like Trump, whom deserves it in spades.
                                Yep, payback is a bitch!

                                Hey, what did I ever do to you guys? :(

                                Comment

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