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  • For Republicans and independents, the speech boosted optimism about what the administration will do moving forward. Just a quarter of Democrats felt more optimistic.
    CBS News poll
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DOR View Post
      The most interesting part to me was when he said both the POTUS and Congress had pledged to "serve, protect, defend our citizen," rather than "protect and defend the Constitution." Very telling.
      Think you're reading a bit too far into that. I'm not going to say he's an ardent defender of the constitution, but I don't think he is literally out to, and isn't even able to, destroy it. That's why we have the courts. Don't think we have much to worry about there.

      Originally posted by DOR View Post
      His definition of healthcare that isn't Obamacare is so close to Obamacare that they should just pass a law saying it is now called Trumpcare: pre-existing conditions covered, premiums subsidized, states helped to expand Medicaid, and efforts to reduce the cost of care, drugs and insurance. In other words, Obamacare.

      It is disturbing to see his xenophobia emerging into action with the new DHS office VOICE: Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement. It's almost as if victims of crimes by Native Americans are somehow less worthy of assistance ...

      In all, I counted six policy reversals (including the "fantastic F-35" and "respect for veterans") and 20 "alternative facts."
      Reversals alone aren't a sign of incompetence, in fact I'd rather politicians are able to reverse policy if that is in fact the better thing to do. I don't want them sticking to bad policies, like Trudeau is re: the F-35.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by citanon View Post
        They asked for briefings to be kept to 1 page with lots of graphics or and maps. Is that because he's bored of them? Because he doesn't have enough time at the start of the administration? Because the 1 page format was more efficient and conveyed just as much information? Because the people producing the old briefings were being too long winded? Because.......
        You are right, he might also be lazy

        Originally posted by citanon View Post
        I'm not. First I fail to see how a few staffers out of literally hundreds not getting security clearances can be seen as indicating anything at all. Secondly the real facts are obviously far from justifying the statement that staffers "can't seem to get security clearance". Really? What about the other 99%? It's yet another alternative fact that is as irrelevant as all the other ones you are hysteric over. I didn't think it worth our time to even go over.

        Originally posted by citanon View Post
        I said Trump has selected good people. I did not say that every last single one of his picks were good.

        Bro, do you even logic?
        DO I logic :) I don't know, do you

        SO who are the good people and who are the bad people, as per you?
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DOR View Post
          It is disturbing to see his xenophobia emerging into action with the new DHS office VOICE: Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement. It's almost as if victims of crimes by Native Americans are somehow less worthy of assistance ...
          That does kind of defy good reasoning. You take any 10 million people, be they illegals or citizens and you're going to have x number of murders, rapes, robberies, etc. etc. If you shipped 10 million citizens out of the country, crime would go down in terms of absolute numbers. If, at the same time, you let all the illegals stay, you'd have a hard time explaining why crime decreased but the illegals are still here. That's the misleading aspect in all this.

          The other thing that doesn't make sense--as others have noted--is giving special treatment to victims of crimes perpetuated by illegals. All victims of violent crime are the same no matter who perpetrates the crime. IMO, Trump is overcooking the goose on this one.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

          Comment


          • Now for a lighter moment... What's Kelly Ann doing on the couch?...Not what you'd think...read

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a05c56e2ea61


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            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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            • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              Given the speech during the weekend and this one, it has boosted optimism in me for his new speechwriters. As long as keeps Bannon and little Miller away from his speeches he would be good

              Actually governing is another matter though.
              "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                Now for a lighter moment... What's Kelly Ann doing on the couch?...Not what you'd think...read

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a05c56e2ea61


                [ATTACH=CONFIG]43394[/ATTACH]
                What a silly, silly controversy that was. I am not a fan of KellyAnne but this is a bit over the top.
                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                  Now for a lighter moment... What's Kelly Ann doing on the couch?...Not what you'd think...read

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a05c56e2ea61


                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]43394[/ATTACH]
                  Get serious : )

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                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                    Some of the members here who I thought should know better bought into the narrative. Intelligence agencies that should know better bought into the narrative. National security officials who should have known better bought into the narrative.
                    Ignore the facts you mean? How else do you explain these facts and Trumps lying denials of them? This is straight out of the Moscow play book; no Muscovite soldiers in Ukraine remember...

                    Originally posted by citanon View Post
                    Of course the media was all too ready to be Putin's puppets, not because they want to, or that they are enemies of the people, but because they are morons.
                    It is the job of the media to report the news. When it becomes clear that the President is lying consistently over his links with Russia it is surely news.

                    [QUOTE=JAD_333;1022226]Trump is not denying that he had interest in doing business in Russia. He had a number of proposals some years ago. What he's saying now is that he has nothing going on in Russia now.[QUOTE=citanon;1022197]

                    That is one interpretation if one wanted to be careless or possibly benign. If I said I had nothing to do with Ukraine (or Poland or the UK or Hellas or Macedonia, Serbia, France or even Muscovy), nothing whatever and had not phoned anyone in any of those countries for the last ten years I would knowingly lie. Of course I disclose my interests, friends and family contacts - as well as professional working contacts some of whom I count as friends. I am quite happy if my tax returns are investigated or the incomings and outgoing payments from my bank accounts to be looked at - I was asked to comply with such an investigation once. I do not have anything to hide and do not need to lie or withold the sources of my income. Nor do intelligence operations work on the 'here and now' basis as I understand it. They keep dossiers on people who may be useful until they find a chance to use any incriminating information they may have in a manner useful for their purposes. You probably know more than I in that regard but I can tell you that Toria Nuland had a deal on the table last year from her meetings with Surkov that involved an end to the Muscovite occupation of Ukrainian territory; it was all but done. When Trump became the Republican candidate that went out of the window and the hacks occured and all the meetings with intelligence and 'business' people (because Sechin is serious business but not in the ordinary sense) and the Trump campaign started; 'Agent Orange' was activated. To say he does not have business interests in Muscovy at this minute means nothing and may be true or false. It would be standard proceedure to try to not have clear interests if you did have a connection I would presume.


                    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    It's an odd situation. Number 2 guy at DOJ told Priebus (privately, I presume) that the NYT article exaggerated contacts Trump's people had with Russians in that they were not as frequent and as sinister as reported. Priebus apparently wanted the FBI to share that with the public, but the FBI demurred saying the matter was still under investigation. It's a molehill being made into a mountain by outlets like the NYT, which itself should have waited for the investigation to be completed just as it demanded of the administration.
                    Obviously I do not know and cannot know for sure what happened there. As far as I heard it - and I did not see any proof - the White House, through Preibus leaned on the FBI who told them to go to hell; quite rightly in my opinion. They then leaned on some people in control of the intelligence committees in your Congress who complied. I was also told that any investigation by these committess would be held in secret and any report they came up with could only be made public with the White House say so... Not sure if this is correct but if so I already know how that ends. This, which seems to be at least partly true going from press reports I have just looked up, is (in my view) another attempt at a cover up and should be recognised as such and another part of consistent lies on these matters. It's a bit like the old 'Arguement from Design' for the existence of God: You find a watch/clock on a deserted island and you must surmise, having worked out it's mechanism, that it has a designer and maker. Patterns show just this or you must offer an alternative solution for the 'coincidences'. As a logical argument for the existence of God it does not follow of course but in life too many coincidences and lies mean he is desperate to hide something. "No no; nothing to do with me [which is proven to be a lie] but I will not release my tax returns to assure you" should not be an acceptable answer. Leaning on the FBI and Committee chairmen only compounds the stench. Clearly something is being hidden on the Muscovite contacts.

                    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    Conservative values are no more anti-Enlightenment than liberal values. Judging by the way liberals are behaving and the absurd things they are saying in reaction to Trump's election and first month in office, I would question just how much liberals value the truth.
                    I fully agree with you regarding the dangers of 'progressive thoughtspeakism' or what they call 'political correctness' and many other aspects of 'exceptionalism' they regard as valid. As a small Lady (5ft 7' in heels) and a 'dumb blonde' I have had to compete with other Ladies and Gentlemen. I do not want 'preferential treatment' because of what I am but respect for what I do. Political correctness stifles opportunity for those who can and will imv. I am a rebel at heart I suppose and trying to make me think or speak as you do is appalling to my sense of taste and contrary to what I consider wise. The extreme left and right are the same; conformity and indocrination and I utterly reject either.

                    However I do not agree with citanon's partisan 'apologies' and professions of belief such as "but he has a mental divide between the self-adoring side and the self-loyal side" and other such pseudo psychiatric babble mean nothing to me when questions remain unanswered and are consistently lied about. The truth is there and will come out. I am 99% sure the Trumpeteers will not accept it. What happens then should worry you in the US but you need to solve it quick as a wider war in Europe is increasingly likely and a compromised and chaotic WH inceases the liklihood.

                    It is in many ways an old story just playing out a sequel in the US. Remember they never invaded Georgia? The Georgians invaded Abkazia - a province of their own country! Same of course in Ukraine. I remember there was a thread here some time ago regarding 'winning the Cold War' and I argued then as should be evident now that it was never 'won' by the West; if anything it was won by the Central and Eastern European nations but it was but a battle and not the end of a war which would require the exposure and public cleansing of the Muscovite checkist state publicly along the lines Vladimir Bukovsky recommended and as was done at Nuremburg. Now I understand the reasons why this was not done - though Bukovsky himself tried - but again as he said imagine if the SS and Gestapo had not been cleansed from post war Germany. What you expect? That is what has happened in Muscovy; the Checkists have returned and want their Empire back. Trump is just another 'useful idiot'.

                    Comment


                    • There were two as I said. One a video tape and one audio.
                      Based on imaginary conversations with made up ministers.

                      No guns in the election booths during the Ukrainian elections. We have IMF deals and requirements not exclusively US loans or EU loans and have repayed every penny on time.
                      Evidently more corrupt than Russia, with a smaller economy, nothing of value, and a venal political class who are throwing around said IMF money in DCto try and kiss ass with the new administration which they were criticizing six months ago. Beggers and crooks looking for a new sugar daddy.

                      When people from deadweight nations are outraged the free ride is up, it's a good sign.

                      Why bother with justice right? Forget it - until you are robbed or assaulted - or they come for you. I understand you love the kleptocratic mafia regime in Moscow but seriously why don't you move there?
                      You don't understand our legal system.
                      Last edited by troung; 02 Mar 17,, 06:46.
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post

                        The most heart wrenching moment was when Trump called on the wife of the Navy Seal who was killed during a raid in Yemen to stand in the gallery. Her grief just tore me up...
                        Given his well known acumen for using TV he pretty much set that up. While those clapping for her no doubt did it from the heart I don' think Trump did. He stood there and basked in what he created and then tried to milk it a second time when he talked about setting a record. Once again he is very concerned with records which, to most of us, would be irrelevant.

                        Comment


                        • Well the house is in, congressional investigation is go.

                          Comment


                          • Sessions now lied about meeting with Kislyak? This is BS. Agent Orange should be pulled.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LongLurker View Post
                              Think you're reading a bit too far into that. I'm not going to say he's an ardent defender of the constitution, but I don't think he is literally out to, and isn't even able to, destroy it. That's why we have the courts. Don't think we have much to worry about there.
                              Yeah, I didn't say that, either.

                              Originally posted by LongLurker View Post
                              Reversals alone aren't a sign of incompetence, in fact I'd rather politicians are able to reverse policy if that is in fact the better thing to do. I don't want them sticking to bad policies, like Trudeau is re: the F-35.
                              Yeah, I didn't say that either.
                              Trust me?
                              I'm an economist!

                              Comment


                              • From whitelash to Trump here for 8 years, van Jones is quite the emotional guy. :D



                                And now he's experiencing his own personal whitelash from a flurry of melting snowflakes. :D

                                https://www.yahoo.com/tv/twitter-tur...151053203.html
                                Last edited by citanon; 02 Mar 17,, 12:15.

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