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Thread: 2017 American Political Scene

  1. #1006
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Getting there finally...
    em, what? elaborate, pls?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  2. #1007
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Doktor,

    1999 Ö partying like itís 1999 Ö euro established, Bill Clinton cleared, Racak massacre, Enronís California energy crisis, Wayne Gretzky retires, Columbine, Napster, W, devolution, Jiji, Seattle riots, Macau, DiMaggio, Ö what was the reference?


    Never said it doesn't, just that the majority of the decisions doesn't affect expats, like the people who are actually in the States.
    Well, we donít get Medicare and arenít eligible for Obamacare (even though weíre regularly threaten with legal action if we donít sign up for a program that is unavailable to us). Most government websites want a zip code, which we don't have. Registering to vote can be difficult (where would you register a kid, now 18, born overseas?), getting an absentee ballot on time is onerous and then we find out many states donít bother counting our ballots. But, we do get taxed!

    Americans abroad donít have congressmen and senators to represent us, just the ones from our home states and they donít care. There are about 7-10 million of us, and both parties ignore us when drafting legislation. In the last few elections, weíve swung a couple of seats so maybe thereís hope.

  3. #1008
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Doktor,

    1999 … partying like it’s 1999 … euro established, Bill Clinton cleared, Racak massacre, Enron’s California energy crisis, Wayne Gretzky retires, Columbine, Napster, W, devolution, Jiji, Seattle riots, Macau, DiMaggio, … what was the reference?
    That little incursion north of me without UN mandate in order to reshape the borders. We were talking about the lies in order to get to war, right?


    Well, we don’t get Medicare and aren’t eligible for Obamacare (even though we’re regularly threaten with legal action if we don’t sign up for a program that is unavailable to us). Most government websites want a zip code, which we don't have. Registering to vote can be difficult (where would you register a kid, now 18, born overseas?), getting an absentee ballot on time is onerous and then we find out many states don’t bother counting our ballots. But, we do get taxed!

    Americans abroad don’t have congressmen and senators to represent us, just the ones from our home states and they don’t care. There are about 7-10 million of us, and both parties ignore us when drafting legislation. In the last few elections, we’ve swung a couple of seats so maybe there’s hope.
    Over here we had 3 MPs from the diaspora, but the turnout was so little, now they have UP to 3 seats (out of 120) if the candidate from abroad gathers at least the minimum number of votes that the last one that enters from home gets.

    You talk about 10 million out of 330, here we have 500k out of 2 million, yet they don't vote. Many of them (living near) come home for the process.

    WRT to the health insurance, don't you pay it in the country where you currently work?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  4. #1009
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Seems Sen. McCain has some of the concerns that I did with one of that guy's statements.
    (CNN)Sen. John McCain slammed President Donald Trump's attacks on the media this week by noting dictators "get started by suppressing free press."
    If you listened to what McCain actually said, you would know that this sentence is false. He was defending the concept of a free press. Fake news? I prefer the term distorted news.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  5. #1010
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    I think you meant "no worse."
    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333
    Which makes the Democrats no better than the Republicans.
    No. I meant 'no better'. But if you want to go the other way, I'd say the Democrats are worse...at this moment in time.

    I've been around a long time, and I don't ever recall liberals or conservatives being as viperous, ugly, and obnoxiously righteous as the liberals have become since the election.

    And it's only helping Trump. Hysteria isn't a viable policy. When will you guys ever learn.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ml?src=me&_r=0
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  6. #1011
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    And to follow up:

    Here's just the current offering of liberal nail biting in the New York Times

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ype=collection

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ype=collection

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ype=collection

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/o...ke.html?src=me

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/14/o...pgtype=article

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/o...ou.html?src=me

    and here's a lulu...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...in.html?src=me


    Now is the time to be calm and sober. But these commentaries lead toward hysteria. You can't call them fake news, even if their premises are weak. They're more like mob incitement draped in the respectability of urban sophistication.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    No. I meant 'no better'. But if you want to go the other way, I'd say the Democrats are worse...at this moment in time.

    I've been around a long time, and I don't ever recall liberals or conservatives being as viperous, ugly, and obnoxiously righteous as the liberals have become since the election.

    And it's only helping Trump. Hysteria isn't a viable policy. When will you guys ever learn.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ml?src=me&_r=0
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  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    From an article titled "When the Democrats do it, it's ok"

    http://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.o...d2ae0343d9f50b
    and more

    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/44291
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  9. #1014
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post

    Pari, hadn't seen the Wilson center archive record the first time you posted it..
    Embassy of the USSR in the USA Washington, D.C.
    Top secret
    Copy No. 1
    From the Journal
    of DOBRYNIN, A.F.
    RECORD OF THE CONVERSATION
    with A. HARRIMAN
    December 1, 1976

    On December 1 Harriman came to visit me.

    I. He said that he had met with J. Carter on Monday, November 29, at his (i.e. Carter's) home in the
    city of Plains (state of Georgia). As had been agreed, he, Harriman, had brought to Carter's
    attention the messages which had been brought from Moscow on behalf of L.I. Brezhnev,1 as well
    as other messages which the Soviet Ambassador had expressed to him, Harriman, in accordance
    with the instruction to bring this information to Carter's attention.

    The "President-elect" (Carter's current title) has authorized Harriman to convey the following
    answer for transmission to L.I. Brezhnev (Harriman read further from the text which he was
    holding):

    Carter received the message from General Secretary L.I. Brezhnev and was grateful for the
    sentiments...

    http://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.o...d2ae0343d9f50b
    It's clear that the meeting took place before Carter's inauguration. Harriman, speaking for Carter, correctly states that Carter cannot negotiate anything before assuming office, but some subtle negotiation appears to take place anyway, not, however, of a conclusive nature. The point, of course, is that pre-inaugural contact the president-elect's representative and the Russians are not novel, nor confined to Republicans.

    The email from the Podesta hack is merely a proposal from the Chinese ambassador to meet with campaign staff prior to the election. No word on whether the meeting ever took place or what the ambassador wanted to convey to HRC. But, interestingly, we see no alarm expressed by Podesta etal in the email exchanges thatr such a meeting might be illegal.

    People who don't understand the Logan Act would jump to the conclusion that the Harriman-USSR Ambassador meeting 3 weeks before Carter's inauguration was a violation of the law simply because contact occurred, whereas a negotiated agreement would have to come of it for a violation to occur. Prosecution for mere contact would be extremely difficult, and if a conviction followed, it would probably be reversed on appeal on constitutional grounds, e.g., first amendment protection of free speech.

    Glad someone is going their homework.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    No. I meant 'no better'. But if you want to go the other way, I'd say the Democrats are worse...at this moment in time.

    I've been around a long time, and I don't ever recall liberals or conservatives being as viperous, ugly, and obnoxiously righteous as the liberals have become since the election.

    And it's only helping Trump. Hysteria isn't a viable policy. When will you guys ever learn.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ml?src=me&_r=0
    Hopefully not before 2018...

    On Fb I keep telling my friends who are anywhere from left of center to Left of Left Feild that Middle America doesn't hear them anymore and that the only way they will is if the American Left cleans its own house first. In 2018 the Senate is in play, not for the Dems, but for the GOP who could see a real chance at 60.

    The media bias, the soft coup by the deep state, the ugliness and violence of the hard left, the refusal to accept the results of a free and fair election, after demanding Trump do so, the Russia paranoia... Its an awful lot of vinegar when they need honey.

  11. #1016
    Senior Contributor chakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    The media bias, the soft coup by the deep state, the ugliness and violence of the hard left, the refusal to accept the results of a free and fair election, after demanding Trump do so, the Russia paranoia... Its an awful lot of vinegar when they need honey.
    So how would the left convince middle America to vote for it when middle America is so far right that the left couldn't bring it onside unless it stopped being left?
    The best part of repentance is the sin

  12. #1017
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    No. I meant 'no better'. But if you want to go the other way, I'd say the Democrats are worse...at this moment in time.

    I've been around a long time, and I don't ever recall liberals or conservatives being as viperous, ugly, and obnoxiously righteous as the liberals have become since the election.

    And it's only helping Trump. Hysteria isn't a viable policy. When will you guys ever learn.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/o...ml?src=me&_r=0
    Then you must have been sleeping during the Obama years (remember "subhuman mongrel", "ape in heels", chimpanzee ?)

    http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/...bhuman-mongrel
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...-a-racist.html

    However, I agree, with you. For Democrats, this is not the time to try and impeach Trump. For Democrats, this is a wake up call to revitalize their party, a blessing in disguise and a time to celebrate. For the first time in many years there is someone in the White House who is singlehandedly making Republican Congressmen in deep red districts avoid their constituents.

    The last thing Democrats need is to impeach one of the least popular Presidents of all time and hand it over to a seemingly mild mannered but far more effective (from a conservative POV) combo of Mike Pence, Ryan and McConnell. Instead they need to show they are the grown ups. For that, the violent protests need to stop and they need Trump in the WH. They need to use him as an excuse for fundraising, needle him periodically about his small hands and his smaller electoral margin (guaranteed to make him go ballistic) and point out he is a lapdog to Bannon. Also, they need to dare the Republican party to repeal Obamacare, regardless of how many that affects. Nov 2018 will come soon enough.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #1018
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Doktor,

    Hmm. I could have sworn there was a massacre at some place called Račak, in central Kosovo, around that time. The UNSC and Secretary General described it as a massacre perpetrated by Yugoslav security forces. It’s outside my area of expertise, but I don’t see “the lying to congress, our allies and the American people -- for the purpose of launching an unnecessary war of aggression.”

    WRT to the health insurance, don't you pay it in the country where you currently work?
    Nah, HK and the UK are very civilized. You don’t pay for something as important as healthcare. Well, OK, in Hong Kong it was HK$100 a visit, including the open-heart surgery. If you couldn’t pay the equivalent of US$12.25, it was just waived.

    It’s all paid out of taxes … which Americans abroad pay, both where they live and to the US Government. Double payout, single benefit.

    . . .

    Rather than continue to engage on who's nastier, I'll just give a big thumbs up to antimony's post above mine.

  14. #1019
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    "We only have one president at a time." President Lyndon Johnson, 1968.

    “‘We only have one President at a time,’ he said. ‘One of the worst things we could do is to undermine the President.’” Hubert Humphrey, 1969.

    "We only have one president at a time". Rep. Dante B. Fascell (D-Fl), House Foreign Affairs Committee chair (Comment regarding attack on US marines in Beirut, and whether Congress should investigate President Reagan.) Dec 1983.

    "We only have one president at a time." Bob Dole, (regarding Bosnia). Dec 1995.

    “The incoming president should have a standard reply, which is we only have one president at a time. It is your call, I take over at noon on January 20th.” Stephen Hess, Brookings Institution, Dec 2000.

    "We only have one president at a time." President Obama, Nov 2008.

    Or, do we?

    Gary Sick, the former White House aide to President Jimmy Carter, commenting on Ronald Reagan’s responses to questions about his illegal foreign policy activities prior to taking office: “`one of the most remarkable things to come out on this story. If you read the Reagan statement, when he's asked if he did anything to keep the hostages in Iran, he says, `I did some things actually the other way to try and be some help to get the hostages out of there.' That is the very first time anybody involved in the 1980 Reagan campaign has said they were doing anything about the hostages.
    --Washington Post, July 9, 1991.

    Did Richard Nixon’s campaign conspire to scuttle the Vietnam War peace talks on the eve of the 1968 election to capture him the presidency?
    Absolutely, says Tom Charles Huston, the author of a comprehensive, still-secret report he prepared as a White House aide to Nixon. In one of 10 oral histories conducted by the National Archives and opened last week, Huston says “there is no question” that Nixon campaign aides sent a message to the South Vietnamese government, promising better terms if it obstructed the talks, and helped Nixon get elected.
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...e-talks-107623

    George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
    Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them to refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
    Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation.

    http://www.commondreams.org/views/20...ietnam-treason
    Notes Indicate Nixon Interfered With 1968 Peace Talks

    See also, http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...lks-180961627/

    And, someday we'll have the truth about pre-inauguration contacts between the Trump team and Moscow.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Hopefully not before 2018...

    On Fb I keep telling my friends who are anywhere from left of center to Left of Left Feild that Middle America doesn't hear them anymore and that the only way they will is if the American Left cleans its own house first. In 2018 the Senate is in play, not for the Dems, but for the GOP who could see a real chance at 60.

    The media bias, the soft coup by the deep state, the ugliness and violence of the hard left, the refusal to accept the results of a free and fair election, after demanding Trump do so, the Russia paranoia... Its an awful lot of vinegar when they need honey.
    The opposite (doubling down to crazy ville) worked for the Republicans in 2010, so why don't the Democrats give it a shot in 2018?

    Worst we could have is a repeat of the past six years.

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