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Thread: 2017 American Political Scene

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    Doktor,

    IE people can do things independently, they don't need to be told by the CIA/West to do it, which is what drhuy was not so subtly hinting at.

    in any case, here's an interesting set of charts. we'll see where we are in four years' time.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/op...r-in-2017.html
    Thanks for the clarification. Well, things do not work with independent shops in this neck of the woods. Not even in your own hood, let alone with the neighbors. Great powers set the dynamics, this is what they do, and the small(er) players should adopt, or at least stay of the radar.

    WRT chart rom NYT: 12 million illegal immigrants? I've read a 30mn figure somewhere.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  2. #32
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    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Meh, was not referring to Trump himself or Breitbart & Co.

    Question. What happens if the numbers are somewhere in between. They are illegal, so he is right noone has the hard numbers, but just estimates.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  4. #34
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    from the politifact piece.

    All of these figures come from subtracting known legal immigrants from the total number of foreign-born people documented in the U.S. census and then controlling for the estimated percentage of unauthorized immigrants who refuse to answer the census.

    Researchers at all of the organizations told us Trump’s statement is wildly inaccurate.

    There is "absolutely zero possibility" for the number to be just 3 million or as many as 30 million," according to Robert Warren of the Center for Migration Studies, a nonpartisan immigration policy think tank.

    "There is strong evidence that the number is 11 million, with a plausible margin of error of plus or minus 1 million," he said.

    Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Research Center, called both of Trump’s numbers "virtually impossible" and explained why. On the low end, survey data shows large enough foreign-born populations and legal admissions that there could not be as few as 3 million people.

    The high-end of Trump’s offered estimate is contradicted by the limited number of housing units in the United States, Mexico and Central America’s census data and surveys’ size, and U.S. data on admissions and departures.

    "There’s simply no way for an additional 20 million people to be in the country and have escaped detection," Passel said.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    That doesn't answer the question. It only shows they are certain and have some data to back it up.
    We've seen so much of this confidence and lame ooops sorry later.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  6. #36
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    As a God loving, small state/low tax, strong defence conventional 'conservative' I think we conservatives all over have to root out and put and end to these so called 'alt right' types who in fact have more in common with the commies of the past and the neo nationalists (in some countries) of today.

  7. #37
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Exactly what the hell is with this? If he sides more with Putin than our intelligence agencies then I have a word for that.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politi...ump/index.html

  8. #38
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    When asked, Assange says he didn't get the stolen emails from the Russians. Wrong question. He should have been asked if the emails could have been stolen by the Russians and passed to him by a non-Russian intermediary. It would be easy enough for any hacker to do, giving Assange plausible deniability.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    When asked, Assange says he didn't get the stolen emails from the Russians. Wrong question. He should have been asked if the emails could have been stolen by the Russians and passed to him by a non-Russian intermediary. It would be easy enough for any hacker to do, giving Assange plausible deniability.
    Leading questions
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #40
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Leading questions
    Okay, your honor. So, Mr. Assange, can you say that the person or persons who gave you the stolen files did not get them from a Russian source?

    Or, did the person or persons who gave you the files say where they got them?
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    As a God loving, small state/low tax, strong defence conventional 'conservative' I think we conservatives all over have to root out and put and end to these so called 'alt right' types who in fact have more in common with the commies of the past and the neo nationalists (in some countries) of today.
    It seems you are not too much allowed to be God loving,have a small state and low tax with the current crop either.
    Nationalism is good.Too much international crap and we get in trouble.I noticed a pattern.The likes of EU are popular in poor countries with poor administration.But otherwise it is sub-standard.Romania,Ukraine...
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Meh, was not referring to Trump himself or Breitbart & Co.

    Question. What happens if the numbers are somewhere in between. They are illegal, so he is right noone has the hard numbers, but just estimates.
    "somewhere in between" ?

    A says, "There are 100 billion people on planet earth."
    B says, "No, there are about 7 billion."

    A says, "But, what if the "real" number is somewhere in between?"

    If a nonsensical number is used as the upper limit, and the argument is made that the "real" number is somewhere in between that and a good estimate, the nonsensical number serves only to confuse.

  13. #43
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    "somewhere in between" ?

    A says, "There are 100 billion people on planet earth."
    B says, "No, there are about 7 billion."

    A says, "But, what if the "real" number is somewhere in between?"

    If a nonsensical number is used as the upper limit, and the argument is made that the "real" number is somewhere in between that and a good estimate, the nonsensical number serves only to confuse.
    Fine. Tell me it didn't happen before and I am buying your argument.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #44
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    doktor,

    dude, your argument consists of 'well, people have been wrong before so why should we trust any figure.'

    this is not something that can be debated.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #45
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    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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