Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2017 American Political Scene

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Exactly, whom was pre-judged. I have spent time at both community colleges and universities. So I am hardly pre-judging what I have seen in my training, knowledge and experience.

    Comment


    • GVChamp,

      That's a common narrative, but I'm not sure how true it is. Like, college+ identified as a slight Dem advantage in the 2004 election, but Dubya blew Kerry out of the water in the upper income brackets. Those margins have not been realized again, but the GOP won the MC and UMC in every election, with maybe Trump slightly losing in the $100k-$200k bracket.

      Here's exit poll summary:
      http://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/...ics/income.jpg

      College+ identify as solid (D) these days...but I wonder how much this is influenced by college grads who suck at life (can't find a job, can't get/stay married). Those aren't successful suburban whites, they are hipsters. The margins among married people remained pretty much the same:
      https://ballotpedia.org/Why_did_the_...ink_in_2016%3F
      different times we're talking about, though, especially with the 2004 example. two major black swan events temporarily scrambled existing political conventional wisdom (9-11, Iraq War).

      obviously the debate between the Sanders wing and the HRC wing of the Dems was primarily which group (poor/lower middle class/middle vs upper middle class) to focus on more, and which group can be, for lack of a better term, taken for granted.

      huge generalities of course, but ironically the Sanders wing probably has the better political argument, if not the actual solutions. (even more obvious caveat here of better political argument in 2016, with 2020 unknown-- those UMC urbanites whom blithely thought that anyone the Dems nominated would crush Trump had a rude wakeup call.) there's more voters in the first, and given the hard-lining of the GOP cultural war, there's fewer places for the second to run off to.

      Also should add that Dem fissures will naturally grow as the party gets bigger and the GOP competes to win back some lost constituencies. Budgets are a big issue and will continue to be a big issue. The suburban UMC whites are not going to be major fans of big tax increases on them and will likely find the forthcoming progressive activism distasteful, which will make them an alienable demographic.
      would be more true under a Romney or Rubio administration, doubt it will be true for the foreseeable future. the "what's wrong with K
      Last edited by astralis; 28 Nov 17,, 20:01.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
        Exactly, whom was pre-judged. I have spent time at both community colleges and universities. So I am hardly pre-judging what I have seen in my training, knowledge and experience.
        Well given that then I just have to chime in with my experience which probably trumps yours. In my 10 years in two universities, through undergrad and grad school 1971-1981, I saw not one Marxist or anyone approaching that. I saw lots of strange characters who usually in the math and physics departments. These two universities were San Diego State University and the University of California at Berkeley. Holy cow did I say Berkeley the hot bed of marxist and uber liberal professors? Yes, I did say that and challenge you to prove my wrong by telling me what years you attended UC Berkeley.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
          And remember TBM, this is the President who, on his recent trip to Japan, told Toyota and Nissan that they needed to Come to America and build cars.

          Go to a Toyota dealer and try to find a car Not made in the US.
          Unless, your trying to unionize and negotiating s new contract: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...camrys-cheaper

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bonehead View Post
            I find it rather difficult to believe that you live so close to Stanford and Cal/Berkley and say it is fiction that universities are way left leaning. East coast ivy league are well known to be such. My personal experience with colleges in Oregon back up what surfgun said. I have to ask, are you in denial or trolling?
            Stanford has the Hoover Institute located on campus. Cal has John Yoo in UCB law school. https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2017/11/2...-rules-of-war/ Granted his current Dean wants him indited for war crimes. https://www.thenation.com/article/pr...n-chemerinsky/ Chemerinsky is the current Dean of UCB Law School.

            Just because the instructor leans one way or another politically, doesn't mean the students will change their beliefs or practices. It amazes me how words and not actual events get people so emotionally overwrought.
            Last edited by Dazed; 29 Nov 17,, 06:55.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dazed View Post
              Just because the instructor leans one way or another politically, doesn't mean the students will change their beliefs or practices. It amazes me how words and not actual events get people so emotionally overwrought.
              Precisely. I had lecturers who spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right and a whole lot whose tendencies were unclear.

              I didn't magically become a Marxist feminist because I had several as lecturers, though I benefited from having my comfortable assumptions about gender relations challenged. I didn't magically become an adherent of neo-liberal ideas because I was lectured and tutored in several courses by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of those positions, though I benefited from having my left wing view of the world challenged. I didn't emerge a Zionist from lectures by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of that cause.

              Much like 'media bias' discussions, people who prosecute these arguments tend to assume they are the smart ones in a sea of dumb people who will just be swayed by anything they read or hear.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                surfgun,


                Prejudice. Pre-judging.
                How's that shoe size?



                Next you'll be saying that today's GOP isn't really so far to the right that it needs a telescope pointed left to even find Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes.


                - - - - -

                Here's an example of the sort of “leftist” professors I studied with at Berkeley:
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Scalapino
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
                Chalmers Johnson, you lucky bastard. His work on the MITI was one of the best things I read at uni. Still have a copy of it somewhere. Great scholar.
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  Precisely. I had lecturers who spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right and a whole lot whose tendencies were unclear.

                  I didn't magically become a Marxist feminist because I had several as lecturers, though I benefited from having my comfortable assumptions about gender relations challenged. I didn't magically become an adherent of neo-liberal ideas because I was lectured and tutored in several courses by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of those positions, though I benefited from having my left wing view of the world challenged. I didn't emerge a Zionist from lectures by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of that cause.

                  Much like 'media bias' discussions, people who prosecute these arguments tend to assume they are the smart ones in a sea of dumb people who will just be swayed by anything they read or hear.
                  So you had lecturers that spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right? Evenly distributed were they? You also need to explain that in Australian unis anybody right of centre is a fascist. So your 'far left to far right' spectrum is actually far left to centre left.

                  Do you really believe that unis are not left leaning? Actually you probably do. Cos they may be left leaning but there's always room to go further left when it's a government funded institution - right comrade?

                  I'd put money on you working in the public service.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                    I'd put money on you working in the public service.
                    The military is also public service. And so are convservative sitting MPs and Senators.

                    However, is ADFA left leaning?
                    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 29 Nov 17,, 17:12.
                    Chimo

                    Comment



                    • surfgun,


                      I have spent time at both community colleges and universities.
                      Oh, good.
                      That will save a lot of time.
                      From your experience, you'll already know that the kinds of sweeping statements you've made here really can't be backed up with any sort of statistical evidence. You might also be aware of the tendency of people to be more liberal earlier in life (say, oh, college years?) and more conservative later on.

                      Call it alternative facts, if you wish.

                      - - - - -

                      Dazed,

                      Have a look at the Hoover Institute's analysis of China's new leadership (https://www.hoover.org/publications/...ership-monitor). Top quality stuff, and no hint of US political slant. They may have some appalling characters parked there between administration jobs, but that doesn't necessarily mean the entire place is tainted.

                      As for Cal, Boalt Hall Law School is not The University of California per se (different administration), and John Yoo is just another sign of the kinds of tolerance for different perspectives that you have to expect from Cal. Like him or want to see him behind bars, he is a good scholar.

                      - - - - -

                      astralis,

                      My take on the Sanders vs. Clinton debate in the DNC is that it mirrors the one from 2004: 50 state strategy (Dean) vs. focusing on key swing states (Kerry). Sanders' statements recently have been more about 50 states, super delegates and funds disbursement oversight than about ideology.

                      The sad thing is that neither seems to be focused on ensuring that eligible voters are allowed to actually cast a ballot, and that the ballots they cast are actually counted. That's the top priority, IMHO.

                      - - - - -

                      Bigfella,

                      I had Johnson on China, where his work on peasant nationalism turned the post-war understanding of why the CCP won the civil war on its ear. Very right-wing stuff, but good scholarship (he used primary Japanese sources, which no one else had done up to that point). I read his MITI work, and again, it was important to keep it in the post-war context.
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Trying to verbal me makes you look like a fuckwit, which I suspect is a familiar feeling. You know three fifths of fuck all about my University experience. But hey, why let ignorance stop you and break the habits of a lifetime.

                        Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                        So you had lecturers that spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right? Evenly distributed were they? You also need to explain that in Australian unis anybody right of centre is a fascist. So your 'far left to far right' spectrum is actually far left to centre left.
                        Google 'David Kemp' and 'Colin Rubenstein' moron.

                        Do you really believe that unis are not left leaning? Actually you probably do. Cos they may be left leaning but there's always room to go further left when it's a government funded institution - right comrade?
                        There is literally nothing here that has anything to do with what I wrote.

                        I'd put money on you working in the public service.
                        I'd put money on you not being the sharpest tool in the shed. One of us would win the bikkies, and it wouldn't be you. I've never done a day's work for a Government body in over 3 decades of my working life.

                        You should talk less. It will make you look smarter.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                          Bigfella,

                          I had Johnson on China, where his work on peasant nationalism turned the post-war understanding of why the CCP won the civil war on its ear. Very right-wing stuff, but good scholarship (he used primary Japanese sources, which no one else had done up to that point). I read his MITI work, and again, it was important to keep it in the post-war context.
                          One of the great joys of tertiary study is the opportunity to meet & sometimes interact with people like this. I had my entire view of Cambodian history turned around by David Chandler, a gentle man of deep intelligence who steered me away from the received wisdom (and implicit racism) of the 'anti-imperialist' left to a view centered much more on Cambodians themselves. Decades on the lesson still resonates.
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                          Comment


                          • Surely the amount of politics involved in your University life depends partly at least on what you studied? I did 'the Greats' Classics and Philosophy for my BA and our arguments were mostly about Rome vs Greece or subjectivism vs empiricism (Kant vs Hume etc). I honestly never discussed politics with any of my Profs and couldn't tell you how they voted. We discussed the politics of ancient Greece and Rome etc - I was a Roman Republican and pro Sparta - but I honestly could not say how my Profs voted on any course - particularly in epistemology and logic courses it is irrelevant. I never joined any political society either - only the Classics and Philosophy Societies and formed the Abrahamic Society with some friends to get discourse between Christians, Jews and Muslims on the shared heritage of the three faiths. Apart from that it was just books and study, little time for anything else. Only those not interested in their subjects get involved in politics at Uni in my view. I was interested and loved my study and my Profs.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                              Trying to verbal me makes you look like a fuckwit, which I suspect is a familiar feeling. You know three fifths of fuck all about my University experience. But hey, why let ignorance stop you and break the habits of a lifetime.



                              Google 'David Kemp' and 'Colin Rubenstein' moron.



                              There is literally nothing here that has anything to do with what I wrote.



                              I'd put money on you not being the sharpest tool in the shed. One of us would win the bikkies, and it wouldn't be you. I've never done a day's work for a Government body in over 3 decades of my working life.

                              You should talk less. It will make you look smarter.
                              So angry Bigfella! You certainly don't like being challenged do you? You turn to profanity laden rhetoric in your reply to me the same way you'd turn to calling someone racist who challenged your idea's on say immigration. Classic lefty!

                              I just love the way you're so impressed with yourself. Proudly telling the world that your leftwing views were all formed after careful deliberation(by yourself) of all arguments. How you were educated in an Australian university that gave you the full spectrum learning experience and was in no way influenced by leftist thinking like all unis are. Your opinions and ideas are not only correct but "Bigfella certified".

                              So if you don't work for the public service then you work for a private company that exclusively services government contracts? Also, do you have a collection of tools (good spanner set, socket set, drill)? Or just a safeway screwdriver and set of pliers in the tea towel draw?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                                So angry Bigfella! You certainly don't like being challenged do you? You turn to profanity laden rhetoric in your reply to me the same way you'd turn to calling someone racist who challenged your idea's on say immigration. Classic lefty!

                                I just love the way you're so impressed with yourself. Proudly telling the world that your leftwing views were all formed after careful deliberation(by yourself) of all arguments. How you were educated in an Australian university that gave you the full spectrum learning experience and was in no way influenced by leftist thinking like all unis are. Your opinions and ideas are not only correct but "Bigfella certified".

                                So if you don't work for the public service then you work for a private company that exclusively services government contracts? Also, do you have a collection of tools (good spanner set, socket set, drill)? Or just a safeway screwdriver and set of pliers in the tea towel draw?
                                Not angry, just bored with dickheads whose greatest intellectual achievement is to troll the internet. If you can't even follow a link then we can assume constructing an argument is a bit much to expect. Continuing to verbal me and for a second post in a row simply proves the point I made about you in the first. You have made no attempt to contribute to the discussion.

                                I've probably worked on contracts for several hundred different companies as well as some government entities. So, wrong again. I have a huge collection of hand & power tools that get used regularly (including this morning). You really aren't very good at this, are you?

                                Now I'm done playing 20 questions and helping you troll. Fuck off & let the grownups get back to their discussions like a good boy.
                                Last edited by Bigfella; 30 Nov 17,, 03:14.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X