Exactly, whom was pre-judged. I have spent time at both community colleges and universities. So I am hardly pre-judging what I have seen in my training, knowledge and experience.
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
2017 American Political Scene
Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
-
GVChamp,
That's a common narrative, but I'm not sure how true it is. Like, college+ identified as a slight Dem advantage in the 2004 election, but Dubya blew Kerry out of the water in the upper income brackets. Those margins have not been realized again, but the GOP won the MC and UMC in every election, with maybe Trump slightly losing in the $100k-$200k bracket.
Here's exit poll summary:
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/...ics/income.jpg
College+ identify as solid (D) these days...but I wonder how much this is influenced by college grads who suck at life (can't find a job, can't get/stay married). Those aren't successful suburban whites, they are hipsters. The margins among married people remained pretty much the same:
https://ballotpedia.org/Why_did_the_...ink_in_2016%3F
obviously the debate between the Sanders wing and the HRC wing of the Dems was primarily which group (poor/lower middle class/middle vs upper middle class) to focus on more, and which group can be, for lack of a better term, taken for granted.
huge generalities of course, but ironically the Sanders wing probably has the better political argument, if not the actual solutions. (even more obvious caveat here of better political argument in 2016, with 2020 unknown-- those UMC urbanites whom blithely thought that anyone the Dems nominated would crush Trump had a rude wakeup call.) there's more voters in the first, and given the hard-lining of the GOP cultural war, there's fewer places for the second to run off to.
Also should add that Dem fissures will naturally grow as the party gets bigger and the GOP competes to win back some lost constituencies. Budgets are a big issue and will continue to be a big issue. The suburban UMC whites are not going to be major fans of big tax increases on them and will likely find the forthcoming progressive activism distasteful, which will make them an alienable demographic.Last edited by astralis; 28 Nov 17,, 20:01.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
Comment
-
Originally posted by surfgun View PostExactly, whom was pre-judged. I have spent time at both community colleges and universities. So I am hardly pre-judging what I have seen in my training, knowledge and experience.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gun Grape View PostAnd remember TBM, this is the President who, on his recent trip to Japan, told Toyota and Nissan that they needed to Come to America and build cars.
Go to a Toyota dealer and try to find a car Not made in the US.
Comment
-
Originally posted by bonehead View PostI find it rather difficult to believe that you live so close to Stanford and Cal/Berkley and say it is fiction that universities are way left leaning. East coast ivy league are well known to be such. My personal experience with colleges in Oregon back up what surfgun said. I have to ask, are you in denial or trolling?
Just because the instructor leans one way or another politically, doesn't mean the students will change their beliefs or practices. It amazes me how words and not actual events get people so emotionally overwrought.Last edited by Dazed; 29 Nov 17,, 06:55.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dazed View PostJust because the instructor leans one way or another politically, doesn't mean the students will change their beliefs or practices. It amazes me how words and not actual events get people so emotionally overwrought.
I didn't magically become a Marxist feminist because I had several as lecturers, though I benefited from having my comfortable assumptions about gender relations challenged. I didn't magically become an adherent of neo-liberal ideas because I was lectured and tutored in several courses by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of those positions, though I benefited from having my left wing view of the world challenged. I didn't emerge a Zionist from lectures by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of that cause.
Much like 'media bias' discussions, people who prosecute these arguments tend to assume they are the smart ones in a sea of dumb people who will just be swayed by anything they read or hear.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
Comment
-
Originally posted by DOR View Postsurfgun,
Prejudice. Pre-judging.
How's that shoe size?
Next you'll be saying that today's GOP isn't really so far to the right that it needs a telescope pointed left to even find Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes.
- - - - -
Here's an example of the sort of “leftist” professors I studied with at Berkeley:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Scalapino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnsonsigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bigfella View PostPrecisely. I had lecturers who spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right and a whole lot whose tendencies were unclear.
I didn't magically become a Marxist feminist because I had several as lecturers, though I benefited from having my comfortable assumptions about gender relations challenged. I didn't magically become an adherent of neo-liberal ideas because I was lectured and tutored in several courses by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of those positions, though I benefited from having my left wing view of the world challenged. I didn't emerge a Zionist from lectures by one of Australia's most prominent advocates of that cause.
Much like 'media bias' discussions, people who prosecute these arguments tend to assume they are the smart ones in a sea of dumb people who will just be swayed by anything they read or hear.
Do you really believe that unis are not left leaning? Actually you probably do. Cos they may be left leaning but there's always room to go further left when it's a government funded institution - right comrade?
I'd put money on you working in the public service.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gun Boat View PostI'd put money on you working in the public service.
However, is ADFA left leaning?Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 29 Nov 17,, 17:12.Chimo
Comment
-
surfgun,
I have spent time at both community colleges and universities.
That will save a lot of time.
From your experience, you'll already know that the kinds of sweeping statements you've made here really can't be backed up with any sort of statistical evidence. You might also be aware of the tendency of people to be more liberal earlier in life (say, oh, college years?) and more conservative later on.
Call it alternative facts, if you wish.
- - - - -
Dazed,
Have a look at the Hoover Institute's analysis of China's new leadership (https://www.hoover.org/publications/...ership-monitor). Top quality stuff, and no hint of US political slant. They may have some appalling characters parked there between administration jobs, but that doesn't necessarily mean the entire place is tainted.
As for Cal, Boalt Hall Law School is not The University of California per se (different administration), and John Yoo is just another sign of the kinds of tolerance for different perspectives that you have to expect from Cal. Like him or want to see him behind bars, he is a good scholar.
- - - - -
astralis,
My take on the Sanders vs. Clinton debate in the DNC is that it mirrors the one from 2004: 50 state strategy (Dean) vs. focusing on key swing states (Kerry). Sanders' statements recently have been more about 50 states, super delegates and funds disbursement oversight than about ideology.
The sad thing is that neither seems to be focused on ensuring that eligible voters are allowed to actually cast a ballot, and that the ballots they cast are actually counted. That's the top priority, IMHO.
- - - - -
Bigfella,
I had Johnson on China, where his work on peasant nationalism turned the post-war understanding of why the CCP won the civil war on its ear. Very right-wing stuff, but good scholarship (he used primary Japanese sources, which no one else had done up to that point). I read his MITI work, and again, it was important to keep it in the post-war context.Trust me?
I'm an economist!
Comment
-
Trying to verbal me makes you look like a fuckwit, which I suspect is a familiar feeling. You know three fifths of fuck all about my University experience. But hey, why let ignorance stop you and break the habits of a lifetime.
Originally posted by Gun Boat View PostSo you had lecturers that spanned the ideological spectrum from far left to far right? Evenly distributed were they? You also need to explain that in Australian unis anybody right of centre is a fascist. So your 'far left to far right' spectrum is actually far left to centre left.
Do you really believe that unis are not left leaning? Actually you probably do. Cos they may be left leaning but there's always room to go further left when it's a government funded institution - right comrade?
I'd put money on you working in the public service.
You should talk less. It will make you look smarter.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
Comment
-
Originally posted by DOR View PostBigfella,
I had Johnson on China, where his work on peasant nationalism turned the post-war understanding of why the CCP won the civil war on its ear. Very right-wing stuff, but good scholarship (he used primary Japanese sources, which no one else had done up to that point). I read his MITI work, and again, it was important to keep it in the post-war context.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
Comment
-
Surely the amount of politics involved in your University life depends partly at least on what you studied? I did 'the Greats' Classics and Philosophy for my BA and our arguments were mostly about Rome vs Greece or subjectivism vs empiricism (Kant vs Hume etc). I honestly never discussed politics with any of my Profs and couldn't tell you how they voted. We discussed the politics of ancient Greece and Rome etc - I was a Roman Republican and pro Sparta - but I honestly could not say how my Profs voted on any course - particularly in epistemology and logic courses it is irrelevant. I never joined any political society either - only the Classics and Philosophy Societies and formed the Abrahamic Society with some friends to get discourse between Christians, Jews and Muslims on the shared heritage of the three faiths. Apart from that it was just books and study, little time for anything else. Only those not interested in their subjects get involved in politics at Uni in my view. I was interested and loved my study and my Profs.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bigfella View PostTrying to verbal me makes you look like a fuckwit, which I suspect is a familiar feeling. You know three fifths of fuck all about my University experience. But hey, why let ignorance stop you and break the habits of a lifetime.
Google 'David Kemp' and 'Colin Rubenstein' moron.
There is literally nothing here that has anything to do with what I wrote.
I'd put money on you not being the sharpest tool in the shed. One of us would win the bikkies, and it wouldn't be you. I've never done a day's work for a Government body in over 3 decades of my working life.
You should talk less. It will make you look smarter.
I just love the way you're so impressed with yourself. Proudly telling the world that your leftwing views were all formed after careful deliberation(by yourself) of all arguments. How you were educated in an Australian university that gave you the full spectrum learning experience and was in no way influenced by leftist thinking like all unis are. Your opinions and ideas are not only correct but "Bigfella certified".
So if you don't work for the public service then you work for a private company that exclusively services government contracts? Also, do you have a collection of tools (good spanner set, socket set, drill)? Or just a safeway screwdriver and set of pliers in the tea towel draw?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Gun Boat View PostSo angry Bigfella! You certainly don't like being challenged do you? You turn to profanity laden rhetoric in your reply to me the same way you'd turn to calling someone racist who challenged your idea's on say immigration. Classic lefty!
I just love the way you're so impressed with yourself. Proudly telling the world that your leftwing views were all formed after careful deliberation(by yourself) of all arguments. How you were educated in an Australian university that gave you the full spectrum learning experience and was in no way influenced by leftist thinking like all unis are. Your opinions and ideas are not only correct but "Bigfella certified".
So if you don't work for the public service then you work for a private company that exclusively services government contracts? Also, do you have a collection of tools (good spanner set, socket set, drill)? Or just a safeway screwdriver and set of pliers in the tea towel draw?
I've probably worked on contracts for several hundred different companies as well as some government entities. So, wrong again. I have a huge collection of hand & power tools that get used regularly (including this morning). You really aren't very good at this, are you?
Now I'm done playing 20 questions and helping you troll. Fuck off & let the grownups get back to their discussions like a good boy.Last edited by Bigfella; 30 Nov 17,, 03:14.sigpic
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
Comment
Comment