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Thread: 2017 American Political Scene

  1. #2506
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Universities are staffed to the brim with leftists may have a bit to do with it. Those that can’t, teach.

    At local community colleges one can find some staff that lean to the right. This is because they usually either retired from their past careers or are part-time staff that are still practitioners in the real world of real work.
    The university professor types cling to the leaning tower of leftist ideals with no real world experience.
    Last edited by surfgun; 26 Nov 17, at 19:14.

  2. #2507
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    ^ if that was truly the issue, then the collapse of GOP support for universities would have occurred a long time ago-- since the 1960s, when both professors AND students were far more liberal than today.

    the biggest driver for the recent fall in support is the -party-, and the party-affiliated media, using universities as their bugaboo. this is in line with their denigration of other national institutions for cheap populist political support-- see deep state/Federal Reserve/FEMA conspiracy theories, etc.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  3. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    ^ if that was truly the issue, then the collapse of GOP support for universities would have occurred a long time ago-- since the 1960s, when both professors AND students were far more liberal than today.

    the biggest driver for the recent fall in support is the -party-, and the party-affiliated media, using universities as their bugaboo. this is in line with their denigration of other national institutions for cheap populist political support-- see deep state/Federal Reserve/FEMA conspiracy theories, etc.
    The fact that marxists are more common on campus than conservatives might have something to do with it. As for denigrating national institutions... Do you mean like attacking the police, the BSA, religious institutions, throwing members of the press in jail, declaring sanctuary cities, attacks on the idea that citizenship means something both in duties owed to the government, and from it, that the anthem is sacred. Liberals have yet to find a conservative tradition they will abide. Or the big glaring one- refusing to accept the outcome of an election.

  4. #2509
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Universities are staffed to the brim with leftists may have a bit to do with it. Those that can’t, teach.

    At local community colleges one can find some staff that lean to the right. This is because they usually either retired from their past careers or are part-time staff that are still practitioners in the real world of real work.
    The university professor types cling to the leaning tower of leftist ideals with no real world experience.
    I would like to give you Pulitzer for best in fiction.

    Right up there with the earth is still flat group and we never landed on the moon crowd.

  5. #2510
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    The fact that marxists are more common on campus than conservatives might have something to do with it. As for denigrating national institutions... Do you mean like attacking the police, the BSA, religious institutions, throwing members of the press in jail, declaring sanctuary cities, attacks on the idea that citizenship means something both in duties owed to the government, and from it, that the anthem is sacred. Liberals have yet to find a conservative tradition they will abide. Or the big glaring one- refusing to accept the outcome of an election.
    Have to admit that gave me a good laugh.

  6. #2511
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Universities are staffed to the brim with leftists may have a bit to do with it. Those that can’t, teach.

    At local community colleges one can find some staff that lean to the right. This is because they usually either retired from their past careers or are part-time staff that are still practitioners in the real world of real work.
    The university professor types cling to the leaning tower of leftist ideals with no real world experience.
    “In 1993, Richard F. Hamilton and Lowell L. Hargrens analyzed data from the 1969, 1975, and 1984 Carnegie surveys, and found that despite considerable public debate over a perceived liberal bias in academia, there was little evidence that academia was becoming increasingly liberal. Rather, they found that the number of professors who self-identified as leftists was "fairly constant" throughout the period between 1969 and 1984, while "the overall or not tendency...was towards greater conservatism." In 1984, 39.5% of the professors surveyed described themselves as liberal or left, while 26.6% described themselves as moderate and 33.8% described themselves as conservative or strong conservative.”

    Source: Hamilton, Richard F., and Lowell L. Hargens. "The Politics of the Professors: Self-Identifications, 1969-1984." Social Forces 71, no. 3 (1993): 603-27.

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  7. #2512
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Are you labeling me as prejudiced?

    Do the faculty of universities self identify as leftists? Of course not, they like to think they are some sort of middle of road types. Just because they know others that are farther to the left does not mean they are centrists.
    Last edited by surfgun; 27 Nov 17, at 12:02.

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    unbiased source about how heavily left academia is compared to conservatives.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...out-what-means

  9. #2514
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I would like to give you Pulitzer for best in fiction.

    Right up there with the earth is still flat group and we never landed on the moon crowd.

    I find it rather difficult to believe that you live so close to Stanford and Cal/Berkley and say it is fiction that universities are way left leaning. East coast ivy league are well known to be such. My personal experience with colleges in Oregon back up what surfgun said. I have to ask, are you in denial or trolling?
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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    again, the question is if academia is MORE lefty now than it was in the 1960s. it's pretty obvious the answer is no. is it more lefty than it was in 2010? again, it's pretty obvious the answer is no.

    it's hard to deny that there has always been more liberals than conservatives in the academic world, but that's par for the course given how there is a very strong correlation with ideological affiliation and education level, something that has been increasing since the 1990s as the parties polarized.

    before anyone starts talking about how this makes it sound like "liberals are smarter", this is really more of a factor of how education gives the person more sophisticated ways of justifying their innately held beliefs, which is true across the ideological divide. the strongest partisans are the highest-information voters.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  11. #2516
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    The obviously, lefty students of the 1960’s are now the senior tenured faculty at the university level that hired the next wave of lefties from the 1990’s.
    Historically, those with right leaning tendencies favor field practicum to being contained within the confines of academia.
    So they rarely even seek out employment at university.
    Hopefully, this shortsightedness of those on the right will be corrected; as those on the left have taken full advantage of the vacuum.
    Last edited by surfgun; 27 Nov 17, at 20:11.

  12. #2517
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    There's always the option to go to college and just ignore the stupid lefty political stuff. It's also easy to tune a lot of it out. The politically active portions of campus are a small section of overall campus life.

    Good financial decision? Yeah, probably, just don't major in something stupid, study hard, and don't drop out. I suppose you can learn a trade, but that means a lot of manual work, crappy wages starting out, and still having to learn some special skills (which may be no longer in demand in 10-15 years).

    The places cutting down their higher education funding now are probably going to regret in 15 years, particularly places like AZ that are pretty damn marginal. If you want to cut your funding, cut your primary and secondary school funding...
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  13. #2518
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    surfgun,

    Hopefully, this shortsightedness of those on the right will be corrected; as those on the left have taken full advantage of the vacuum.
    unlikely, because the largest factor between the two modern ideological divides is an urban-rural split. cities by definition will always have more money and be more cosmopolitan than the rural areas, and thus most universities will always show an innate liberal bias.

    from a strictly partisan standpoint, the GOP denigration of universities is a godsend for Democrats because it is helping/will help drive a traditionally Republican constituency-- suburban middle/upper-middle class whites-- right into the waiting arms of the Democratic Party.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  14. #2519
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    That's a common narrative, but I'm not sure how true it is. Like, college+ identified as a slight Dem advantage in the 2004 election, but Dubya blew Kerry out of the water in the upper income brackets. Those margins have not been realized again, but the GOP won the MC and UMC in every election, with maybe Trump slightly losing in the $100k-$200k bracket.

    Here's exit poll summary:
    http://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/...ics/income.jpg

    College+ identify as solid (D) these days...but I wonder how much this is influenced by college grads who suck at life (can't find a job, can't get/stay married). Those aren't successful suburban whites, they are hipsters. The margins among married people remained pretty much the same:
    https://ballotpedia.org/Why_did_the_...ink_in_2016%3F

    Also should add that Dem fissures will naturally grow as the party gets bigger and the GOP competes to win back some lost constituencies. Budgets are a big issue and will continue to be a big issue. The suburban UMC whites are not going to be major fans of big tax increases on them and will likely find the forthcoming progressive activism distasteful, which will make them an alienable demographic.
    Last edited by GVChamp; 28 Nov 17, at 16:01.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  15. #2520
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    surfgun,

    Are you labeling me as prejudiced?
    Prejudice. Pre-judging.
    How's that shoe size?

    Do the faculty of universities self identify as leftists? Of course not, they like to think they are some sort of middle of road types. Just because they know others that are farther to the left does not mean they are centrists.
    Next you'll be saying that today's GOP isn't really so far to the right that it needs a telescope pointed left to even find Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes.


    - - - - -

    Here's an example of the sort of “leftist” professors I studied with at Berkeley:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Scalapino
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
    Trust me?
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