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Thread: 2017 American Political Scene

  1. #2311
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    What in the actual flying fuck? 40,000 nukes. Jesus Christ.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #2312
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    What in the actual flying fuck? 40,000 nukes. Jesus Christ.
    Yeah. weird isn't it? Still, something didn't ring true about the NBC report. Another report I read (can't find it again) said Trump questioned the current level, which seems reasonable for a new president to do, but never expressed a desire to increase it. Somehow that morphed into a story we first saw.

    It's fairly obvious that many media outlets are straining to ding him, and outscoop each other. That's not to say, he isn't giving them plenty of fodder overall, e.g. NFL protest, Puerto Rico recovery, Charlottesville riot, and repeated false claims re size of tax reform plan.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/politi...ump/index.html
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  3. #2313
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    JAD,

    Another report I read (can't find it again) said Trump questioned the current level, which seems reasonable for a new president to do, but never expressed a desire to increase it. Somehow that morphed into a story we first saw.
    can't see how a mere "questioning of the current level", which would indeed be reasonable, would lead to Tillerson calling him a "f*cking moron"...unless that was fake, as well. which doesn't seem that way, given Tillerson's ringing non-denial denial.

    and given Trump's level of knowledge on anything foreign affairs, let alone something as relatively arcane as nuclear force levels and treaties--plus his emphasis on the show-- well, this rings -very- true to me.

    look at his recent antics, pissing off Bob Corker. starting a fight with someone whom has nothing to lose, and will be crucial to your legislative agenda...Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell must writhing quite often these days. selling out your soul to become a punching bag of Trump while getting almost nothing legislatively done, talk about a bad deal with the devil.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #2314
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    can't see how a mere "questioning of the current level", which would indeed be reasonable, would lead to Tillerson calling him a "f*cking moron"...unless that was fake, as well. which doesn't seem that way, given Tillerson's ringing non-denial denial.
    Can't refute your point. On the other hand, supposing Tillerson did call him a "... moron", what reliable information do we have to tell us what he was referring to? I mean there is so much that can be labelled moronic.


    look at his recent antics, pissing off Bob Corker. starting a fight with someone whom has nothing to lose, and will be crucial to your legislative agenda...Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell must writhing quite often these days. selling out your soul to become a punching bag of Trump while getting almost nothing legislatively done, talk about a bad deal with the devil.
    Antics? Interesting choice of words. But that aside, the reality here is that Trump's approval rating among Republicans currently stands at slightly more than 80%, while the GOP leadership in Congress trail him at 53%. I don't know how Trump views this disparity, but it certainly works in his favor when he rakes McConnell and Ryan over the coals. Trump wants to increase pressure on them to pass legislation his base wants. Is it any wonder why Ryan and McConnell are worried for their political future (souls)? I'll grant Trump's criticism is crude, but it's not politically inept.
    Last edited by JAD_333; 13 Oct 17, at 18:42.
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  5. #2315
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    JAD,

    I mean there is so much that can be labelled moronic.
    that's a pretty sad state of affairs when this becomes a defense...lol :-)

    But that aside, the reality here is that Trump's approval rating among Republicans currently stands at slightly more than 80%, while the GOP leadership in Congress trail him at 53%. I don't know how Trump views this disparity, but it certainly works in his favor when he rakes McConnell and Ryan over the coals. Trump wants to increase pressure on them to pass legislation his base wants.
    this -is- foolish, though, because it's not as if McConnell and Ryan have different legislative priorities than Trump does. AFAIK both of them support ACA repeal and a plutocratic tax reform.

    and every time Trump has waded into the legislative waters to either cajole or bully, it's pretty much had the opposite effect of what he intended. the threats against Murkowski and McCain, how much did that help the cause of ACA repeal? how eager is Bob Corker going to be to support tax reform after getting the Trump wire brush?

    as it is right now, Trump is using Ryan and McConnell as beating bags to shore up his own personal support. if Trump wants to use his political capital to beat up on his own would-be allies, hey, i'm all for it...:-)
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #2316
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    that's a pretty sad state of affairs when this becomes a defense...lol :-)
    lol...not a defense by any means...merely an observation.


    this -is- foolish, though, because it's not as if McConnell and Ryan have different legislative priorities than Trump does. AFAIK both of them support ACA repeal and a plutocratic tax reform.
    That's true, but it's their leadership that Trump has been knocking, especially McConnell's, because he failed to deliver enough votes to pass Obamacare repeal & replace. Trump wants to avoid the blame for the failure. That's not saying he isn't as much to blame as McConnell, but rather to explain the political dynamics behind his attacks on McConnell. Inside the beltway, we may see through this, but folks out in the hinterland don't.

    and every time Trump has waded into the legislative waters to either cajole or bully, it's pretty much had the opposite effect of what he intended. the threats against Murkowski and McCain, how much did that help the cause of ACA repeal? how eager is Bob Corker going to be to support tax reform after getting the Trump wire brush?
    I don't think you can make a causal relationship here. It may or may not be because of Trump. It may be because Murkowski, etal., just didn't like the bill. As for Corker not cooperating on the upcoming tax bill because Trump dinged him in a tweet, I don't think so. Not to say Corker will vote for it in final form. There may be solid fiscal reasons to vote against it.

    as it is right now, Trump is using Ryan and McConnell as beating bags to shore up his own personal support. if Trump wants to use his political capital to beat up on his own would-be allies, hey, i'm all for it...:-)
    So, you do agree with me.
    Last edited by JAD_333; 13 Oct 17, at 23:16.
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  7. #2317
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    JAD,

    So, you do agree with me.
    not really. i don't think that Trump is doing this from some LBJ-like pass-the-legislation angle. i agree with your assessment that he's doing it wholly to deflect personal blame (i note he wasn't dumb enough to attack Ryan and McConnell DURING the push for ACA repeal).

    but while this may keep up his own popularity with the base, i highly doubt that this will do him any favors for future legislation. there might not be a direct relationship between whom Trump insults and their views on a bill...but I also don't think it helps, either!
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #2318
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    ...i don't think that Trump is doing this from some LBJ-like pass-the-legislation angle. i agree with your assessment that he's doing it wholly to deflect personal blame (i note he wasn't dumb enough to attack Ryan and McConnell DURING the push for ACA repeal).
    Asty:

    Trump is nowhere near as effective and subtle a politician as LBJ was. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying to get legislation passed, messy as his tactics are.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  9. #2319
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    JAD,

    Trump is nowhere near as effective and subtle a politician as LBJ was. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying to get legislation passed, messy as his tactics are.
    well...LBJ's tactics were messy, but effective.

    as for Trump...speaking of robots, I don't think Democrats could have -designed- a Republican President that could do more for the opposition than for his own party.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #2320
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    During the Obama Presidency I lost count of how many times he was accused of being a 'narcissist'. Faced with someone whose narcissism is off the charts those critics seem to have decided narcissism doesn't really matter. Apparently lying pathologically also isn't a big issue. Even dead soldiers are really all about The Donald.

    In the news conference, Mr Trump said he had written letters to the families of four soldiers killed in an October 4 ambush in Niger and planned to call them, crediting himself with taking extra steps in honouring the dead properly.

    "Most of them didn't make calls," he said of his predecessors.

    He said it's possible that Mr Obama "did sometimes" but "other presidents did not call".
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-1...ldiers/9057200

    We have had some pretty damned awful PMs in the past 20 years, but I wouldn't swap a year of any of them for a month of Trump.


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  11. #2321
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    the phrase "honorless cur" was designed for him, although that besmirches curs.

    it's the people selling out their honor and their oaths to the Republic to try to use Trump as a vehicle to pass a tax cut or find a new restriction against gays who really piss me off. karma is a stone b*tch, though, and gave those types not only someone without honor but someone without much competency, either. malevolence, only tempered by incompetence.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #2322
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    A fresh report; FBI: of Russian bribery plot for Uranium.
    http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...administration

  13. #2323
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the phrase "honorless cur" was designed for him, although that besmirches curs.
    Thank you for the opportunity to present this magnificent piece of footage - former PM Gough Whitlam on the steps of Parliament announcing that he had been dismissed by the Governor General Sir John Kerr. It is the 'gold standard' for the use of the term 'cur' (Malcolm Fraser was the guy appointed as the replacement PM).



    it's the people selling out their honor and their oaths to the Republic to try to use Trump as a vehicle to pass a tax cut or find a new restriction against gays who really piss me off. karma is a stone b*tch, though, and gave those types not only someone without honor but someone without much competency, either. malevolence, only tempered by incompetence.
    ....and just in case any of them missed just how low Trump will go when it is all about him, now he's decided to use the death of General Kelly's son as part of his argument.

    President Trump renewed his claim Tuesday that former president Barack Obama failed to call families of fallen U.S. service members, adding “you could ask General Kelly” whether the White House chief of staff got a call when his Marine son was killed.

    “I think I've called every family of someone who's died,” Trump said during an interview.

    “As far as other representatives, I don't know,” Trump told Fox News radio host Brian Kilmeade.

    “You could ask General Kelly, did he get a call from Obama?”
    For the record, Kelly apparently didn't get a call, but he & his wife were invited to a 'gold star' dinner where they sat next to the first lady.

    Fuck me, is there no bottom here? Is there no depth to which he won't sink? Not only abusing the death of his Chief of Staff's son, but abusing the man's sense of duty by humiliating him in public. Disgraceful.

    The only thing more depressing than this is the inevitability that he will not only be defended by his supporters, but that his popularity with GOP voters will barely be dented. I guess when you vote for a draft dodger who attacks the record of a former POW & insults a 'gold star' family you have thrown any pretense of standards out the door.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  14. #2324
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Carlos Danger computer contained 2,800 Huma Abedin government documents.
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...einers-laptop/

  15. #2325
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    For the record, Kelly apparently didn't get a call, but he & his wife were invited to a 'gold star' dinner where they sat next to the first lady.

    Fuck me, is there no bottom here? Is there no depth to which he won't sink? Not only abusing the death of his Chief of Staff's son, but abusing the man's sense of duty by humiliating him in public. Disgraceful.

    The only thing more depressing than this is the inevitability that he will not only be defended by his supporters, but that his popularity with GOP voters will barely be dented. I guess when you vote for a draft dodger who attacks the record of a former POW & insults a 'gold star' family you have thrown any pretense of standards out the door.
    I can only surmise that it took a superhuman effort on the part of General Kelly not to respond in public. (Unless of course he did so in private, in which case .. Oh!...to be a fly on the wall.) What horrifies me is the inevitable conclusion that that yes, as you noted there is no 'floor' or depths to which this man will not sink. Which means things are only going to get worse as his Presidency proceeds - right up to the last day.

    After the past few months I've come to the conclusion that Donald Trump's Presidency is not about any grand 'vision', about a 'cause', about conservative values, liberal values or for that matter any 'values' at all. Sadly I've come to believe it's all about him, his narcissism and his ego.
    Last edited by Monash; 19 Oct 17, at 00:07.

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