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Thread: 2017 American Political Scene

  1. #2011
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    PB, but the nice thing about the US is that you can put Trump in office and he still can't do anything if Congress and the SC don't want him to do.

    Pretty disgusting that he can't bring himself to condemn friggin' Nazis. At least Cruz, Rubio and Jeb! did. Maybe one of them will run again in 2020 or something. Ugh. Thankfully I was unsober enough last night to distract myself from it.

    Hopefully things will get better, but I just see this getting worse.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Where are you getting your numbers from? With a 40% approval rating (Gallop) they beat both the Republican party (39% same poll) and Trump (36% at 538)

    The Gallop poll is from May

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/210725/de...campaign=tiles

    The 538 poll is day 205. Notice as you scroll still the lowest approval rating of any modern President. Polling data going back to President Truman. Even Ford has him beat, after pardoning Nixon and Draft Dodgers.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/
    538, isn't that the group that blew it in November?

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...party-n2349015

  3. #2013
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Where are you getting your numbers from? With a 40% approval rating (Gallop) they beat both the Republican party (39% same poll) and Trump (36% at 538)

    The Gallop poll is from May

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/210725/de...campaign=tiles

    The 538 poll is day 205. Notice as you scroll still the lowest approval rating of any modern President. Polling data going back to President Truman. Even Ford has him beat, after pardoning Nixon and Draft Dodgers.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

    Of course, from the Gallup poll, it's not the Republicans who are losing ground since Nov 2016, it's the Democrats. Specifically, because the DNC is losing support of its own party members (probably because base a significant number of Democrats are just socialists and race warriors at this point).


    That does not bode well for 2018, though the generic ballot is favoring them right now. Honestly, if they can't take the House in 2018 (or at least come close), I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of heads rolling.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  4. #2014
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    Let's take a step back and keep calm.First,if there is a fight at rallies,it's usually lefties who start it.And no,the solution is not for whoever has the will to rally to stop doing so.The solution is for the loonies to stop fighting other people's rights.

    That includes,nazis,supremacists,commies etc... Although,considering the poor victims slogan was ''we replaced you'' there is no unusual level of ''supremacism''.It's just two sides who struggle for power.And the alleged supremacism is mutual.

    Second,the President was correct in not blaming only one side,for the simple reason that side was not guilty of starting violence at the rally.

    Third,Trump did not created whatever divisions exist today.He is just the voice of a part of the nation that wanted to shout back after decades of keeping quiet and getting ripped for that.

    Fourth,if there is anything to learn from recent history is that polls aren't worth the paper they're printed.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  5. #2015
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    mihais,

    Let's take a step back and keep calm.First,if there is a fight at rallies,it's usually lefties who start it.And no,the solution is not for whoever has the will to rally to stop doing so.The solution is for the loonies to stop fighting other people's rights.

    That includes,nazis,supremacists,commies etc... Although,considering the poor victims slogan was ''we replaced you'' there is no unusual level of ''supremacism''.It's just two sides who struggle for power.And the alleged supremacism is mutual.

    Second,the President was correct in not blaming only one side,for the simple reason that side was not guilty of starting violence at the rally.
    that is false equivalence at its worst. it was an alt-right guy who rammed his car into a bunch of counter-protesters, killing 1 and injuring 19.

    moreover, counter-protesters were NOT shouting the equivalent of "jews will not replace us", or "blood and soil".

    He is just the voice of a part of the nation that wanted to shout back after decades of keeping quiet and getting ripped for that.
    yes, the racist part. honestly, Trump is the unabashed version of the dark side of the GOP: he just says what they previously dog-whistled.

    Fourth,if there is anything to learn from recent history is that polls aren't worth the paper they're printed.
    you are mistaking outlier for trend.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #2016
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    GVChamp,

    Of course, from the Gallup poll, it's not the Republicans who are losing ground since Nov 2016, it's the Democrats. Specifically, because the DNC is losing support of its own party members (probably because base a significant number of Democrats are just socialists and race warriors at this point).


    That does not bode well for 2018, though the generic ballot is favoring them right now. Honestly, if they can't take the House in 2018 (or at least come close), I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of heads rolling.
    too many unknowns at this point, i think. the median result will be a fairly significant level of House losses for the GOP, although I don't know if it will be enough to overcome a pretty big GOP lead.

    of course, the huge x-factor at this point is the economy. "a fairly significant level of House losses for the GOP" is PREDICATED on the economy continuing gang-busters as it is now. even a minor recession will result in huge losses for the GOP, if not now, then certainly by 2020. that was one of my biggest concerns had HRC won, and it's even more true given the economic team in the WH now.

    i think what should terrify the GOP is if the Dems actually re-take Congress. i doubt the next Democratic President or Congress will be eager to talk about a technocratic administration, using previously conservative plans for healthcare, or talking about Grand Bargains. there will be ENORMOUS pressure from the Dem base to "do unto them as they did unto us", complete with the Dem version of REDMAP, the North Carolina shenanigans, and the Gorsuch nomination. i don't think the Senate filibuster will survive such an atmosphere.

    Mitch McConnell is old but not ancient, there's a good chance that he will still be around to rue some of his actions.
    Last edited by astralis; 13 Aug 17, at 15:57.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  7. #2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    I think you will be sadly surprised come next November. To a majority of the country the Left is more toxic than Trump. Trump has a higher approval rating than the DNC specifically or Congress as a whole.
    Sure, sure, how is the legislative agenda going by the way? Must be nice to get stuff done now that you guys have 2 branches of government locked down. Congrats on the healthcare and tax reform bills, oh wait....

    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    Senator Mitch McConnell said I had "excessive expectations," but I don't think so. After 7 years of hearing Repeal & Replace, why not done?
    11:14 AM - Aug 9, 2017
    34,321 34,321 Replies 31,044 31,044 Retweets 119,170 119
    I actually support Donald on this one. Why Mitch, why not done? Get to work and get it done. Why not change the Senate rules?

    Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    Republicans in the Senate will NEVER win if they don't go to a 51 vote majority NOW. They look like fools and are just wasting time......
    Oh, how I wish they do that.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  8. #2018
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Let's take a step back and keep calm.First,if there is a fight at rallies,it's usually lefties who start it.And no,the solution is not for whoever has the will to rally to stop doing so.The solution is for the loonies to stop fighting other people's rights.
    Yeah, bullshit. Wingnuts, on forums and social media have been itching for this where they can teach the liberals, lefties and whoever else, a lesson. The solution, as I have been saying, is for the left to drop their ridiculous opposition to guns and start arming themselves for self defense. If and when the Trump how od cards come tumbling down, the right wing thugs will come out looking for revenge, and left needs to be prepared.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  9. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    PB, but the nice thing about the US is that you can put Trump in office and he still can't do anything if Congress and the SC don't want him to do.
    He can do a LOT regardless of Congress or the Supreme Court. He can cause havoc and discord with a single tweet. And that's just for starters.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  10. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yeah, bullshit. Wingnuts, on forums and social media have been itching for this where they can teach the liberals, lefties and whoever else, a lesson. The solution, as I have been saying, is for the left to drop their ridiculous opposition to guns and start arming themselves for self defense. If and when the Trump how od cards come tumbling down, the right wing thugs will come out looking for revenge, and left needs to be prepared.

    May your wish come true.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  11. #2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Let's take a step back and keep calm.First,if there is a fight at rallies,it's usually lefties who start it.And no,the solution is not for whoever has the will to rally to stop doing so.The solution is for the loonies to stop fighting other people's rights.

    That includes,nazis,supremacists,commies etc... Although,considering the poor victims slogan was ''we replaced you'' there is no unusual level of ''supremacism''.It's just two sides who struggle for power.And the alleged supremacism is mutual.

    Second,the President was correct in not blaming only one side,for the simple reason that side was not guilty of starting violence at the rally.

    Third,Trump did not created whatever divisions exist today.He is just the voice of a part of the nation that wanted to shout back after decades of keeping quiet and getting ripped for that.
    I do believe this is Bigfellas wink, wink and my tiptoe, tiptoe...

  12. #2022
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    May your wish come true.
    It is not my wish, it is what the Right wing talking heads are predicting

    Jeanine Pirro says there will be an ‘uprising’ if any Trump family members are indicted


    Even someone like Krauthammer mentioned it to Tucker Carlson ( I am trying to find that video)

    All I am saying is that the Left needs to be armed and prepared to defend themselves when the right wing losers finally decide to take it into their hands.

    Or do you not believe in the concept of self defense?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #2023
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    He can do a LOT regardless of Congress or the Supreme Court. He can cause havoc and discord with a single tweet. And that's just for starters.
    He is the choice of the electorate. Any havoc, discord or chaos, upto and including nuclear war, that he chooses to do, is therefore brought on by the wishes of the electorate. The electorate deserve whatever they have voted for.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  14. #2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    I'm hardly on the Left and I don't see anything in this country more toxic than Donald Trump.

    His election was tantamount to a national calamity.
    +1

    Putin is laughing.

  15. #2025
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    mihais,



    that is false equivalence at its worst. it was an alt-right guy who rammed his car into a bunch of counter-protesters, killing 1 and injuring 19.
    He was as far as known, not part of the protest. BLM and antifa was there to fight, not to peacefully counter protest in a battle of voices. It was bad guy vs bad guy. Secondly, I don't remember you blaming the Left for the GOP Baseball Shooter, or Muslims in the various vehicle attacks across the world.

    moreover, counter-protesters were NOT shouting the equivalent of "jews will not replace us", or "blood and soil".
    Then what were the clubs they were swinging saying? All those red flags have a very clear historical context.

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