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  • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
    And what's amazing is that it continues to be accepted as gospel by environmental groups. You cannot reason with most of these people. During the HMO debate, I could not get one of them to show me scientific proof that HMOs caused cancer and/or genetic damage to humans, and most of the people making the argument couldn't pass grade school science.
    Yup, hence why I cited every single point when I refuted DOR.

    Interestingly, the EPA itself did a study of DDT in 1971 and found claims that it was a carcinogen were false. The National Science Foundation (NSF) had come to the same conclusion earlier.
    Yup

    A case of politics winning out over science.
    Luckily for us, most of the benefit from DDT in America had already been achieved.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
      I think it's pretty clear that some sort of 'global warming' is happening; whether it is humanity's fault or not is debatable... and I do not know. If we can switch to 'renewable energy' great because long term it is cheaper! Consider if you put a geothermic heating system in your house... no more heating bills.... ever. Sure you might want to light a log fire in winter for the 'atmospherics' and cooking on gas is preferable in my view to electricity but it would not be necessary to keep warm etc...
      My brother (No Cal) put solar panels on his roof, and now the electricity company pays him to run his a/c all summer long.
      Trust me?
      I'm an economist!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by zraver View Post
        Did you hear the "ting" when the trap was sprung?

        Is DDT toxic, anything is toxic at high enough levels but DDT is less toxic than many OTC's and caffeine. There are zero poisoning deaths attributed to DDT. http://www.acsh.org/news/2016/02/11/...isonous-is-ddt

        Is DDT a carcinogen? NO, no equivocation here at all, DDT does not cause cancer. World Health Organization, DDT in Indoor Residual Spraying: Human Health Aspects (Geneva: WHO, 2011), 71

        Silent Spring was a best seller, as science it is junk.

        Does DDT affect ocean photosynthesis? NO, the study that showed it did required 500ppb and a saltwater alchohol solution to reach that level of contamination. At its height DDT in the ocean was 1.2ppb DDT can be dissolved in seawater at concentrations higher than 1.2 ppb if the water contains other components, and of course DDT that is not dissolved can still be carried in suspension. But even so, Wurster was unable to find any examples in nature of water with DDT levels at 500 ppb, even though he took samples from locations that had very recently been treated with DDT, and the highest concentrations he found were short-lived and very localized — hardly sufficient to pose a serious threat to the world’s oceans. Wurster, “DDT Reduces Photosynthesis by Marine Phytoplankton,” 1475.

        DDT does cause egg shell thinning, but mosquito control is far different from mass spraying on everything. Even with mass spraying most bird species benefited from the reduced parasitical disease vectors. Birds counts taken before DDT and after at the time Silent Spring was written showed an increase in bird populations. ATSDR, “Toxicological Profile for DDT, DDE, and DDD,” 134, D24–D26. /National Audubon Society, 1942, The 42nd Christmas Bird Count, Audubon Magazine; National Audubon Society, 1961, The 61st Christmas Bird Count, Audubon Field Notes 15, no. 2. The Audubon Society keeps its data freely available online at http://birds.audubon.org/historical-results.

        It is not a stretch to say DDT has saved more lives than all antibiotics combined. It may well be the single most beneficial non-fuel chemical ever created.

        Mosquito resistant to DDT, yup, but these populations emerged after decades of mass spraying (DDT is still used around the world). There is no reason to think that spot sprays to control out breaks where these populations do not exist would be ineffective. In addition even resistent populations still suffer a 50% repellant rate so its value is not zero. http://www.mosquitoreviews.com/DDT-r...osquitoes.html
        zraver,

        Did that facepalm hurt?

        Did you think the citation from ACSH – the industry’s lap dog – would just slip by as if it were a legitimate source of neutral and accurate information?

        Are you directly funded, as ACHS is, by the Scaife Foundation, or are you a unpaid industry advocate?
        Trust me?
        I'm an economist!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DOR View Post
          zraver,

          Did that facepalm hurt?

          Did you think the citation from ACSH – the industry’s lap dog – would just slip by as if it were a legitimate source of neutral and accurate information?

          Are you directly funded, as ACHS is, by the Scaife Foundation, or are you a unpaid industry advocate?
          How about Cornell? Same results, less toxic than OTC's...

          http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...s/ddt-ext.html

          Dude you are boxed in and wrong, its up top you to adjust your views to fit the science or be a science denier.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
            How about Cornell? Same results, less toxic than OTC's...

            http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...s/ddt-ext.html

            Dude you are boxed in and wrong, its up top you to adjust your views to fit the science or be a science denier.
            "Welcome to the Pesticide Management Education Program (PMEP) web site. PMEP promotes the safe use of pesticides for the applicator, the consumer, and the environment, and also serves as a pesticide information/education center for those interested in pesticide chemicals. Please note that some of our information may be 'dated' and no longer applicable at this time; it is displayed for historical purposes only."

            Nice.
            Trust me?
            I'm an economist!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
              I think it's pretty clear that some sort of 'global warming' is happening; whether it is humanity's fault or not is debatable... and I do not know. If we can switch to 'renewable energy' great because long term it is cheaper! Consider if you put a geothermic heating system in your house... no more heating bills.... ever. Sure you might want to light a log fire in winter for the 'atmospherics' and cooking on gas is preferable in my view to electricity but it would not be necessary to keep warm etc...
              I think there's definitely human activity causing the bulk of the warming, and we probably want to start hitting on this sooner rather than later. It's only going to get worse when other nations industrialize fully. We've only recently crossed the 50% urbanization mark. We're also adding another 3 billion to the Earth this century.
              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                "Welcome to the Pesticide Management Education Program (PMEP) web site. PMEP promotes the safe use of pesticides for the applicator, the consumer, and the environment, and also serves as a pesticide information/education center for those interested in pesticide chemicals. Please note that some of our information may be 'dated' and no longer applicable at this time; it is displayed for historical purposes only."

                Nice.
                https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp35.pdf Says basically the same thing. You are boxed in. I know you want to argue sources on one point to argue about a tree rather than the Forrest but you look silly. Let me guess you are an antivaxxer too

                Comment


                • Can you get more two faced

                  American Patriots Don't Criticize Trump to Foreigners, Most Republicans Believe

                  https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-...120252891.html

                  Fourth of July heralds fireworks, hot dogs and overt displays of American patriotism but a new poll suggests that Americans not only doubt the loyalty of their compatriots but also that increasing numbers of Republicans are convinced that criticizing President Donald Trump to foreigners is incompatible with flag-waving, tub-thumping national pride.

                  According to a YouGov poll, more than half (53 percent) of Republicans think those expressing criticism of the president to non-Americans aren't patriotic, while only one third think the opposite is true.

                  The poll is a complete reversal of Republican views in Democrat Barack Obama's presidency. In a similar survey in 2013, over half (52 percent) of Republicans thought criticizing the president to foreigners was compatible with patriotism and only a third (34 percent) disagreed.
                  Or you can be consistent in your beliefs no matter which party is in office

                  For Democrats, criticism of the president is no impediment to patriotism, regardless of the sitting president's party. In the latest poll, 57 percent of Democrats said that an American can criticize the president to a non-American with no dent to their patriotic credentials. A clear majority of Democrats (53 percent) also thought it was acceptable to criticize the president to non-Americans when Obama was president.
                  Last edited by Gun Grape; 06 Jul 17,, 01:56. Reason: hit post to quick

                  Comment


                  • GG,

                    or, for that matter...

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-independence/
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Horsepucky, the Dems spent 8 years calling everyone who disagreed with Obama a racist.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        Horsepucky, the Dems spent 8 years calling everyone who disagreed with Obama a racist.
                        No, they were tired of this shit:

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                        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                          Can you get more two faced

                          American Patriots Don't Criticize Trump to Foreigners, Most Republicans Believe

                          https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-...120252891.html



                          Or you can be consistent in your beliefs no matter which party is in office
                          Of course...

                          While 61 percent of those aged 65 or older described themselves as “very patriotic,” only 20 percent of those under 30 described themselves in the same terms.
                          It's absolutely correct to say that the Democratic strategy is to drive out voting turnout among people who identify as the least patriotic. They also are less likely to identify democracy as a terminal value!

                          More than a third of Democrats think that burning a flag might be patriotic! Surprisingly, this has jumped up significantly since the person in the White House changed....

                          Similarly, the percentage of Democrats who now say you can burn an Americans flag and still be patriotic has jumped 11 points from 25% in 2013. The percentage of Democrats disagreeing has declined 15 points.
                          Here's another kicker:
                          Today, clear majorities of both Republicans and Democrats agree that you can criticize President Donald Trump and former President Barack Obama – at least to other Americans -- and still be patriotic. While more Republicans than Democrats say it’s okay to criticize the former Democratic President, and more Democrats than Republicans think it’s fine to criticize the current Republican one, more than six in ten say their own party’s president can be criticized by patriotic Americans
                          More worrying is that substantial minorities of Americans, in both parties, think it is not patriotic to criticize the President. I have no idea how someone can arrive at this opinion.
                          "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                          Comment


                          • I saw this chart (shown below) today in an email from Brookings, and thought it might be a good log for the WAB campfire. It is not in reply to any other particular post.

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                            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                              How can competition drive up prices?
                              Considering that I prescribe drugs and you don't I'll tell you how it works since I deal with the costs weekly.

                              The first form of anti-competitiveness is a drug company taking their drug whose patent is about to run out and then change the vehicle. Vehicle is the method of carrying the drug be it liquid, suspension or gel for example. Could be from oral to injection. New patent and more years of protection from generics. Of course it depends on the type of drug and how valuable it is in life and death.

                              Another form which seems to be more a quiet understanding than anything else is the cost of a new drug. Once approved, say for diabetes of which there are many others, you would think the new drug would be cost competitive to break into the market. Nope, never is. The new drug is always priced higher than the existing drugs out there. Practically a given among the manufacturers who then up the price of the older legacy drugs to keep up with the new drug. Consequently all diabetic drugs will see a price increase. You would think most doctors would pay attention but the manufacturers know that most will always start to use the new one on the block whether or not is is better than any of the legacy drugs. I pay attention and always go with the most cost effective that gets the job done. I will note that Pfizer went against the grain when it came out with Lipitor and actually priced it lower than the other statins on the market. The drug became a blockbuster but now declining in the US market.

                              There is a simple diagnostic drug that has been on the market at least 50 years. It last cost $7 for a 15ml bottle in 2015. All of a sudden, over the last two years, the same bottle now costs $100 with me getting emails about a great sale at $75. I no longer use it and neither do others I know.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by antimony View Post
                                So "Hope and Change" is now "Hope and Chance"? If the electorate is going to treat Presidential Elections like a fucking joke then they deserve everything catastrophe coming out of it. Little Melissa's parents can rejoice in the fact that they now have "choice" and "access" to Healthcare, or they can start going after the Senate and House assholes who are doing this to them.
                                That's assuming little Melissa's parents are not Democrats with a Democratic Senator and they are about to get the stick like it or not.

                                Comment

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