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  • USS Iowa visit

    I went to USS Iowa museum in Long Beach this past Saturday (Sept 24, 2016). I'll post some photos later. Haven't had time to go through them.

    1. Met a veteran who served onboard USS Hoel (DD-533) at Battle off Samar. He survived the battle and was rescued after being in the water for 3 days. I bought a signed copy of "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" from him.

    2. I'm surprised that most of the superstructure of the Iowa was virtually unarmored. The only armored part above the armored deck was the citadel and the main turrets. Seeing the ship in person makes it so much more clear about the design philosophy behind a battleship's armor scheme. Reading about it in a book is just not the same.

    I had a chance to see the combat engagement center (CEC). I forgot to check if it's behind armor. Does anyone know?

    I did no have the pleasure of meeting Rusty. He was not there that day.

    And Dayum....those guns are huge!!!
    Last edited by gunnut; 28 Sep 16,, 01:13.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  • #2
    Awesome, sounds like a good trip! Looking forward to seeing some photos!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
      I went to USS Iowa museum in Long Beach this past Saturday (Sept 24, 2016). I'll post some photos later. Haven't had time to go through them.

      1. Met a veteran who served onboard USS Hoel (DD-533) at Battle off Samar. He survived the battle and was rescued after being in the water for 3 days. I bought a signed copy of "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" from him.

      2. I'm surprised that most of the superstructure of the Iowa was virtually unarmored. The only armored part above the armored deck was the citadel and the main turrets. Seeing the ship in person makes it so much more clear about the design philosophy behind a battleship's armor scheme. Reading about it in a book is just not the same.

      I had a chance to see the combat engagement center (CEC). I forgot to check if it's behind armor. Does anyone know?

      I did no have the pleasure of meeting Rusty. He was not there that day.

      And Dayum....those guns are huge!!!
      Very strange. I gave a full lecture AND handouts to several of our tour guides as to where we (actually me as the armor specialist) ADDED 400 tons of armor plate ABOVE Main Deck.

      CEC was the thickest I added in replacing the 3/8" thick Medium Steel(MS) Bulkheads and 1/4" MS overhead with 1 1/2" thick HY-80. The CEC deck only needed to be replaced with 1" thick HY-80.

      All ammo magazines for the CIWS guns, control spaces for the Tomahawk launchers, etc. are 3/4" thick HY-80. What was "only" 3/4" Special Treated Steel (STS) I added another 1/4" of HY-80 over it to bring it up to NAVSEA specs of "fragmentation protection."

      The Radio Room on Main Deck amidships has had her bulkheads and overhead fully covered over with 1" thick HY-80.

      NAVSEA objected (mildly) for calling it "Armor" instead of "Fragmentation Protection". Too many words. As a former tank driver (M-41 Walker Bulldogs) I like lots of thick stuff between me and anything incoming that is fast enough (with or without sharp edges) to spoil my day.
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
        Very strange. I gave a full lecture AND handouts to several of our tour guides as to where we (actually me as the armor specialist) ADDED 400 tons of armor plate ABOVE Main Deck.

        CEC was the thickest I added in replacing the 3/8" thick Medium Steel(MS) Bulkheads and 1/4" MS overhead with 1 1/2" thick HY-80. The CEC deck only needed to be replaced with 1" thick HY-80.

        All ammo magazines for the CIWS guns, control spaces for the Tomahawk launchers, etc. are 3/4" thick HY-80. What was "only" 3/4" Special Treated Steel (STS) I added another 1/4" of HY-80 over it to bring it up to NAVSEA specs of "fragmentation protection."

        The Radio Room on Main Deck amidships has had her bulkheads and overhead fully covered over with 1" thick HY-80.

        NAVSEA objected (mildly) for calling it "Armor" instead of "Fragmentation Protection". Too many words. As a former tank driver (M-41 Walker Bulldogs) I like lots of thick stuff between me and anything incoming that is fast enough (with or without sharp edges) to spoil my day.
        Hello sir, I was hoping maybe I could run into you at the ship Saturday. I asked someone there and he said you were not there. Originally Issac Cavaliero and his family would be there. But they had a family emergency so couldn't make it. I was there with other friends.

        That answered a lot of my questions. I noticed some of the bulkheads were thick, but not "battleship armor." I forgot ships could be and are often modified with armor. Japanese modified some of their WW1 battlecruisers to battleship level armor in the 1930s.

        That 17.3" armor on the citadel was very impressive. That hatch was as thick as it was wide. I also saw the hatch going through the deck armor. Not nearly as thick, but still impressive.

        That brings up a question that I forgot to ask at the ship, how or what opens that hatch? it's huge and probably weighs more than a ton.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure if you are referring to hatches in the Main Deck (which is 1 1/2" thick STS) or through the 2nd deck down to the machinery spaces. That Deck is 1 1/4" STS with 4 3/4" thick Class B on top for a full 6 inches of thickness. In most occupied areas below 2nd deck, there is a 5/8" thick Splinter Deck 30 inches below the 2nd deck. (It's 5/8" thick on Iowa & New Jersey but increased to 3/4" thick on Missouri & Wisconsin.).

          The Main hatchway is 6 inches thick of STS. It is partially counter-balanced and is opened with chain falls then securely locked into its open position.

          I'm sorry I couldn't be there when you visited. We have had some nagging health problems lately.

          Oh, by the way. The Battleship Iowa is NOT in Long Beach. We wanted to put her just south of the Queen Mary. But it turns out San Pedro is better and has given a lot of businesses to reopen and/or expand their offerings.
          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
            Hello sir, I was hoping maybe I could run into you at the ship Saturday. I asked someone there and he said you were not there. Originally Issac Cavaliero and his family would be there. But they had a family emergency so couldn't make it. I was there with other friends.

            That answered a lot of my questions. I noticed some of the bulkheads were thick, but not "battleship armor." I forgot ships could be and are often modified with armor. Japanese modified some of their WW1 battlecruisers to battleship level armor in the 1930s.

            That 17.3" armor on the citadel was very impressive. That hatch was as thick as it was wide. I also saw the hatch going through the deck armor. Not nearly as thick, but still impressive.

            That brings up a question that I forgot to ask at the ship, how or what opens that hatch? it's huge and probably weighs more than a ton.
            Next to the hatch for the citadel is a brass crank wheel. Cranking the wheel will shut it but it's a bear i helped the volunteer coordinator on the WhisKy with it and one of us pushed the door while the other cranked and it was still tough.
            RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
              But it turns out San Pedro is better and has given a lot of businesses to reopen and/or expand their offerings.
              Is there any economic impact reports or studies done in that regard?

              Even anecdotal info would be interesting to read.
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Is there any economic impact reports or studies done in that regard?

                Even anecdotal info would be interesting to read.
                I think the city is still working on that. We didn't upon the ship up until July of 2012 so any beneficiary impact would be small for that year. It is taking time for Seaport Village to get its restaurants and gift shops opened up again, also at least two new restaurants are to be built yet. One restaurant hosted an entire dinner for our crew in thanks for getting his business up and running again.

                So I don't expect any concise or meaningful report would be issued until aft July of next year giving understandable graphs over the first 5 year period.
                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good stuff, thanks Dick!
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                    I think the city is still working on that. We didn't upon the ship up until July of 2012 so any beneficiary impact would be small for that year. It is taking time for Seaport Village to get its restaurants and gift shops opened up again, also at least two new restaurants are to be built yet. One restaurant hosted an entire dinner for our crew in thanks for getting his business up and running again.

                    So I don't expect any concise or meaningful report would be issued until aft July of next year giving understandable graphs over the first 5 year period.
                    Rusty is right getting accurate numbers after only 4 years is difficult at best. I think Rusty's point is the feeling in San Pedro has changed since the Iowa came to town. More young professionals are moving in and more retail space is full. Being a land owner and working in San Pedro for over 30 years I have seen first hand the changes. Ten years ago we ran an average of about 70% occupancy rate for our buildings today it's closer to 80%.
                    Being one of the developers of the "San Pedro Public Market" I am confident the project will succeed and give San Pedro the opportunity to become a real southern California destination. I don't think this development project would be happening without the USS Iowa anchoring our northern flank. Here is a link to the project.

                    https://jerico-development.com/san-pedro-public-market/


                    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                    Is there any economic impact reports or studies done in that regard?

                    Even anecdotal info would be interesting to read.
                    TopHatter here is somthing our CEO did about a year ago.

                    Battleship IOWA Gives Back!
                    When the Battleship IOWA anchored in the Port of Los Angeles in 2012, its mission was to serve as a tourist destination for those who wanted to remember an American icon. During its three years of being “back on duty” it has become a pillar of the local community, acting as much more than an attraction for visitors.
                    It can be said that each ship has its own personality which makes them unique in their own right. In describing the IOWA’s personality, we know it is one of education, innovation, collaboration, and healing. We have continued these ideals of the Battleship IOWA by impacting individuals and organizations that represent a cross-section of our community and society.
                    One of the most incredible results of opening the Battleship IOWA as a museum is that it has become a community platform for veterans, families, students, and local non-profits. The ship stands for something different for each person, and this impact cannot be underestimated.
                    For the veteran volunteers, the IOWA has become a place for healing. These members of our crew have come aboard and quickly felt at home for the first time since they were on active duty. They find people that care and understand what they have experienced, people that spend the time to get to know them, and people that listen.
                    Chris, a volunteer on the IOWA, has found that helping aboard the ship has kept him from falling into bad habits, such as drinking. The IOWA is a place for him to exert positive energy and build upon tendencies that help him heal. Jim, another passionate Navy veteran volunteer lost his wife to an illness a few years back. His life was in disarray until he began working at the Iowa, and he aligns his time on the IOWA with his life getting back on track.
                    For some, volunteering has helped them overcome issues surrounding PTSD and created a path for their future rehabilitation. When Mac first arrived at the IOWA to serve as a volunteer, he was a self-proclaimed mess. His PTSD was debilitating, and it was tough for him to be in social situations. Finding out about the IOWA being refurbished into a museum gave him a new purpose. He felt like he “had to come help the IOWA be refurbished.” Now, Mac is doing much better thanks to his new family, “the IOWA family.”
                    Others, have learned a trade in order to reenter the workforce, such as Mike, who came aboard as a volunteer and is now head of security. Many of the volunteers have even found the fountain of youth, as they revisit the past and pass on stories of service to younger generations. All of our volunteers have formed lasting friendships within a foundation providing them the confidence to grow, heal, and regain a positive outlook moving forward.
                    From the start of its service as a museum, being an involved member of the community has been key to the IOWA. Members of our local community are encouraged to learn through our unique programs such as our free, monthly family night, and our “Day of Discovery” which hosts more than 10,000 low income students per year at no-cost. Programs such as these have influenced young people from a variety of backgrounds to pursue careers in STEM, the military, political science, and education. The IOWA has become a “floating classroom”, teaching many local kids about the importance of the navy, and the impact it has had on shaping recent history. The value of the experience that comes with walking around and even spending a night on board a battleship cannot be underestimated.
                    For others, the IOWA has revitalized their vision of the American dream. We have trained numerous individuals in a variety of skills, and many have gone on to receive working wage employment due to their new skills and relationships. We offer on the job training in a variety of skills ranging from facility maintenance to business administration, all of which come with the perk of being part of something greater than themselves.
                    Our reach has gone beyond the individual, as we have helped fellow community organizations by offering low to no-cost event space, silent auction gifts, and pro-bono organization support. We have hosted events ranging from “Packages for Patriots” to “Harbor Interfaith Services”, all of which support community involvement, and make the IOWA an in-dispensable hub of local activity. The local “Easter Seals” chapter, which pushes activities for their mentally disabled patrons, has also been heavily involved with the IOWA. These volunteers have been some of our most enthusiastic; bringing a huge amount of energy and passion to the ship.
                    Understanding the importance of giving back has led to the IOWA distributing more than 2,000 complimentary tickets per year to local organizations to assist in their fundraising efforts. Members of our crew also proudly serve on community boards, volunteer for local charities, and provide pro-bono advice to strengthen the impact of Los Angeles based organizations and their efforts.
                    We at the Battleship IOWA are proud to be a major part of our local community. In order to continue to do so, we cannot lose the platform that the IOWA stands for. As a historic ship, she requires constant maintenance, repairs, and improvements. Designed as a US Navy warship, the consideration for public visitation or programs was never a part of the criteria. Because of this, the crew is constantly working to improve the ships aesthetics, accessibility, and programs with the limited resources we have available. In a little over three years, the crew has donated over 250,000 hours and built a base of more than 400,000 supporters including donors and social media followers. During this time, we have opened the ship to public visitation, created education programs, built our crew and supporter base, and expanded our community outreach.
                    When asking our volunteers what they would do if IOWA didn’t exist we heard responses that show just how important this ship is. Statements such as, “I don’t know what I would do, I would probably go back to drinking…”, or “I would be sad for days or months…”, and “It would be like waking up and finding part of your body gone.” Other members made it clear that “Our kids would miss out on a huge living breathing classroom”, and “many would miss out on unbelievable interaction…”
                    The importance of our mission at the Battleship IOWA is clear. Being a member of the Los Angeles community has been a rewarding experience for everyone affected by the IOWA.
                    We invite you to join us in our efforts to make a greater impact for the community and our future by considering a donation of your time and/or funding.
                    Last edited by Battleship IOWA; 05 Oct 16,, 04:39.
                    Craig Johnson

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                    • #11
                      For Battleship Iowa:

                      Six or Seven years ago, I wish you could have told me (if you knew about it) that the huge warehouse on the west side of the East Channel would soon be vacant. After Jacques Littlefield died, we were offered his entire tank collection (over 200 tanks and tank related vehicles) FOR FREE including transport. But only if we had a building, or set of buildings, to keep the collection out of the weather and open to the public.

                      I put in quite a bit of time trying to find such buildings such as the old Blimp Hangars in Tustin, a newly built hangar at Long Beach Airport, etc. etc.

                      San Pedro would be the Army/Navy museum center of the west coast. It would have been especially better if we could have gotten the USS Ranger (CVA-61) as well. She could have been berthed in the East Channel, the Lane Victory just across the quay (where she is now) and with the Iowa almost walking distance away -- well that would solve the city's problem about all those barred up apartments (that used to be Navy Housing) on 1st Street to be easily converted into hotels.

                      Count it up; A WW II/Korea/Viet Nam/Lebanon era Battleship, A Korea/Viet Nam/Gulf War Aircraft Carrier, A WW II/Korean War era cargo & troop transport ship and from the WW I era on up to the Gulf War; over 200 tanks, Armored Personnel Carriers, Anti-tank artillery and a SCUD missile launcher (WITH MISSILE). There would probably be more visitors per month than the city's entire population.

                      Well, just day dreaming. Besides, there would be too many complaints about some old geezer having too much fun doing Brodies and Neutral Steers in an M41A1 Walker "Bulldog" tank.
                      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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