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Thread: 17 Indian soldiers killed in Kashmir attack, worst in recent days

  1. #31
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Yeah, maybe he sees a lease of life now. Panama papers revelations have got Nawaz over a barrel. The one thing he didn't need right now. One thing Zardari did before leaving was amend the constitution so the President could no longer dissolve parliament. Earlier that was the cue for the military to take over. The military are not too keen right now to mess around too much overtly but covertly have not changed their tactics. Imran is ever ready to cause interference with his AAP style tactics.

    I've sensed a more civilian push in their politics over the years, not much enthusiasm for military take overs like in the past.

    is it possible for the PA to reform itself ? two examples of military heavy states doing just that exist already. Chile & Indonesia. Chile in some aspects was even more extreme at disappearing the opposition. Took around twenty years but under civilian control now.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Oct 16, at 13:38.

  2. #32
    Military Professional 667medic's Avatar
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    Well, so much for the surgical strike being a deterrent. Pakistan just showed a big middle finger to India. The Pakistani public largely believes the surgical strike to be a figment of Indian imagination and now are probably thrilled at this latest incident. What's the sentiment in India now....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/wo...mu-attack.html

    NEW DELHI — Tensions between India and Pakistan were raised again on Tuesday, when a group of heavily armed militants disguised as police officers attacked an Indian Army unit in the northern state of Jammu and Kashmir, killing seven soldiers, the Indian government said in a statement.

    The assault began early Tuesday in the officers’ dining hall at Nagrota, about two miles from the army’s regional headquarters for the country’s northernmost state, which has been at the center of a nearly 70-year dispute with neighboring Pakistan.

    After killing four soldiers there, the militants moved on to two other buildings, where they held hostage a group of 16 soldiers and relatives, including “two ladies and two children,” the statement said.

    All of the hostages were rescued, the government said, but an officer and two soldiers were killed in the operation, along with three militants.

    Also on Tuesday, Indian security forces in Jammu and Kashmir reported killing three heavily armed militants after a battle near the town of Ramgarh, on the Pakistani border, that lasted several hours. Dinesh Kumar Upadhyaya, inspector general of the Jammu frontier area for the Border Security Force, said the militants were armed with AK-47s, wore suicide belts and hurled about a dozen grenades before being killed.

    Tensions have heightened between the two nuclear-armed countries since a Sept. 18 assault by militants on an Indian Army post in the disputed region of Kashmir killed 19 soldiers. India, which said the assailants had come from Pakistan, conducted retaliatory military strikes two weeks later on terrorist camps in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir.

    Since then, nationalist statements have increased in intensity in both countries, worrying many. India and Pakistan have been at war three times since they gained independence from Britain in 1947.

    Experts said Tuesday that they viewed the latest attack as a continuation of nearly three decades of violence in Jammu and Kashmir. “It is business as usual,” said Praveen Swami, the author of “India, Pakistan and the Secret Jihad: The Covert War in Kashmir, 1947-2004.”


    Analysts said the attack was unlikely to provoke the type of retaliatory strikes from India that followed the assault in September. But they also said it was unclear how India would react, because Prime Minister Narendra Modi has not followed the pattern of previous governments. Those acted quietly, while Mr. Modi publicized his military’s retaliation to the September attack.

    “It’s clear that India won’t be responding in the predictable fashion,” said Nitin A. Gokhale, a national security analyst at the Vivekananda International Foundation.

    Separately on Tuesday, Lt. Gen. Qamar Javed Bajwa took command of the Pakistani Army from Gen. Raheel Sharif, who retired.

    In his farewell speech, General Sharif warned India that it “should know that mistaking our policy of patience for weakness would be dangerous.”

    Before Tuesday, India had already lost 23 security officers in border skirmishes since the September assault on the Kashmir army base. Pakistan has also lost a substantial number of security officers, although it has not released an official count.

    Dozens of civilians have also been killed, and diplomatic relations between the two countries have been virtually suspended.
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  3. #33
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    Name:  KASHMIR.png
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    Kashmir is no longer what it used to be. Indian military is no longer as active. Mass insurgency has faded out but the local kashmiri society is still unstable and chaotic but it is also a part of the intrinsic culture. The kashmiri politicians are from the dynasty and other elite circles and have no actual power with the local populace. They want indian politicians from other parts of the country to come and fix their economic and social issues.

    The recent high profile attacks do not change the picture.
    Last edited by anil; 01 Dec 16, at 07:16.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    The Kashmiri Muslims are now on the right path, they are moving towards a mass agitation more than the gun approach.
    Its the only way they can move anywhere, for as long as they use the gun the rest of us Indians will keep fighting them.
    These stupid incidents of violence are only ruining the Kashmiri Muslims struggle for independence.
    They are still idiotic though, chances of them getting any more autonomy are slim, and of freedom are not even worth discussing, India is too strong right now, and looks like it will remain strong for the foreseeable future, no point burning their blood right now, keep up the struggle on a low flame to keep it burning, till the Republic of India is strong.
    cheers

  5. #35
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    ^^ If the hind didn't surrender during the Islamic conquest, what makes you think that a bunch of pariahs from a forgotten mamluk order can claim a place in the hind?

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Well you never know, give or take a 1000 years everything breaks down every now and then, that would be the right time.
    One things for sure all the killing that went on recently was of no consequence, just pure waste of Human life, The Pakistani and Kashmiri Muslims were being stupid in all of this, all these years of living in the shit for what, any logical man would have known there is no way an armed struggle could result in anything.
    They can keep going on now, however at the end of the day, only they suffer the most and live in this shit. Better to just keep it as a non violent protest for now, and keep earning money and getting educated.
    cheers

  7. #37
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    kuku, the conquest was well over even before the British arrived. The mamluks were reduced within Delhi and nizam by the Marathas until the arrival of the British and their alliances has given some breathing time to remaining mamluk provinces(partition).

    The Muslim living on the Indian sub-continent(Pakistani, Kashmiri or other hind variety) feels the need to put a gun to its own head in an effort to claim a lost right. That may be but India had moved on and the fate of mamluk states(social, economic and military stability) is not indias concern.

  8. #38
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Well, do not know about all of that but one thing is clear that it is better for them to shout slogans and not fire bullets and throw stones, they only make their own life hell.
    Their dreams of a homeland where they live without Hindus in their shariya law will have to wait till India becomes so weak as to have no influence there.
    cheers

  9. #39
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    Your expectations from muslims living on the hind are absurd.

  10. #40
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    This is about Muslims in Kashmir valley, and their desires to be independent of Indian control, and their current inclination towards the "radical islam" and their animosity towards the Hindu religion.
    Muslims everywhere are different, they are different in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Kochi, living in quite peaceful ways, being as patriotic as you and me.
    cheers

  11. #41
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    Muslims everywhere are different, they are different in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Kochi, living in quite peaceful ways, being as patriotic as you and me.
    Like minded people like you had also come to the conclusion that the pakistanis wanted independence.

    I doubt whether you actually understand your own people or rather it is more obvious that you never sincerely thought about this at the fundamental level.

    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    This is about Muslims in Kashmir valley, and their desires to be independent of Indian control, and their current inclination towards the "radical islam" and their animosity towards the Hindu religion.
    Like I said before, your understanding of people and culture is flawed at the foundation. I'm not a politician and hence I'm not tied down to any notions of political correctness.

    People, culture and civilisation will always be above nationality - plain geopolitical basics. Unfortunately, semantics is a boring subject. We might as well be speaking in two different languages.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Here is what i said, and i will say it again the Kashmiri separatism (who are all Muslims) lost their battle before it even begun, and now they are just making life difficult for themselves, and all their efforts from now till the foreseeable future will only result in most of the misery being suffered by their own people.
    There is no Hind, there is the Republic of India, an evolving secular democracy.
    cheers

  13. #43
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    I'm not sure whether you are trying to warn the rebels with consequences or whether you actually expect the muslims in the hind to withdraw resistance and surrender to the Indian civilisation. Either way, you are delusional.

    btw, the hind is a civilisation while a secular democracy is a form of governance.

  14. #44
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    I am pointing to the fact that this whole Kashmir separatist movement can not achieve anything, and they should just keep it as a non violent protest, till the time comes when violent protest can actually achieve something, this time does not appear to be anywhere in the foreseeable future.
    There is no civilization called "the hind". What some refer to as the Indian civilization is an amalgamation achieved with inclusion, not forceful assimilation of several cultures into a strict single culture or school of though, there is a lot of freedom in this structure to exist, without the worry of loosing your identity, all it takes is time, and there is plenty of it.
    Your tendency to go personal in a message board is very immature.
    cheers

  15. #45
    Contributor anil's Avatar
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    Thank you for sharing the thoughts - https://youtu.be/jRKz82v5JQY

    Good day

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