All this is one or another form of Luciferiansim, the worshiping of the right and the freedom of that right.
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2016 Turkish Coup Attempt
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Originally posted by kato View PostActually while Marx and Engels were Hegelians in their youth, they later rejected Hegel's idealism in constructing their concepts, instead picking and evolving Feuerbach's materialistic theorems. Marx still credits Hegel in Capital given that this was a continuous evolvement with Hegel at the source; however he also stated that Hegel's dialectics needed to be "turned upside down" to discover the kernel of truth behind their mysticism.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostI do not disagree, long time since I read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf so I will curtsy to your better knowledge on this, political philosophy was never my study... I would almost say I do not believe in such a thing and that all political 'ideology' is dangerous; practical Hegelianism is what both were. My point is that neither derived intellectually from logical positivism.
We (in the Balkans and especially in Serbia) are faced with the possibility of Erdogan sending 3 million military aged men, that all belong to the "culture" that enslaved us for 500 years and with whom we have very well recollections what it can do. To make matters worse, it doesn't hide its goals which were the same as they were 500 years ago.
As much as I would like to go into the depths of intellectual and philosophical debates I can't because I see this as a more "practical" issue that requires different type of science and thinking. More along lines of applied physics, mathematics and chemistry.Last edited by Versus; 19 Mar 17,, 11:45.
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Originally posted by Versus View PostYou are missing the point Snapper. If the whole world was on the Western level of perception, ideologies wouldn't be a problem. You could argue and debate and make actions and moves as long and much as you want. But the fact that it isn't creates a totally different situation. It would be like you debating the meaning of life with your friend in the woods and you are both totally engaged that you forgot to notice that you've been surrounded with the pack of hungry wolves and all your intellectual debate won't mean a thing when they start eating you alive. In military terms, what I am trying to say is that the West has lost situational awareness.
We (in the Balkans and especially in Serbia) are faced with the possibility of Erdogan sending 3 million military aged men, that all belong to the "culture" that enslaved us for 500 years and with whom we have very well recollections what it can do. To make matters worse, it doesn't hide its goals which were the same as they were 500 years ago.
As much as I would like to go into the depths of intellectual and philosophical debates I can't because I see this as a more "practical" issue that requires different type of science and thinking. More along lines of applied physics, mathematics and chemistry.
First you started the 'intellectual and philosophical debate' by wrongly mentioning logical positivism as an intellectual underpinning to Fascism and Communism - which are both 'Western' theories. To a wolf no intellectualism matters; it is driven by hunger and does not mind what flag or ideology it marches under; Tukhachevsky who's 'Red' Muscovite troops moved to restore Muscovite control over Ukraine, Belarus and Poland in 1919-20 was the Lieutenant in the Tsarist Imperial Guard during WW1. Ideologies for a wolf are another excuse and another face.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostFirst you started the 'intellectual and philosophical debate' by wrongly mentioning logical positivism as an intellectual underpinning to Fascism and Communism - which are both 'Western' theories. To a wolf no intellectualism matters; it is driven by hunger and does not mind what flag or ideology it marches under; Tukhachevsky who's 'Red' Muscovite troops moved to restore Muscovite control over Ukraine, Belarus and Poland in 1919-20 was the Lieutenant in the Tsarist Imperial Guard during WW1. Ideologies for a wolf are another excuse and another face.
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Logical positivism, which you mentioned as being the intellectual basis for these extremist ideologies was a philosophical theory of meaning; nothing more. It's roots lay more in the British empiricist tradition of Locke and Hume that also gave birth to US Declaration of Independence not Bolshevism or Nazism which derive more fully from Hegelian theory. You were just wrong.
Nor am I saying that either Hitler or Stalin ever read Hegel's Theory of the State; almost certainly neither did and the truth is more likely neither cared; to would be autocrats laws, principles, theories do not matter; if you find a rule, theory or precedent useful for a specific situation great. If not never mind and proceed as you wish anyway. It is the difference between the civilised respect of the rule of law as a basis for freedom and a form of hero worship for some 'Great Leader' where no matter what laws may in theory be written down any law is subject to the whim of the ruling clique surrounding the Great Leader.
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snapper,
Ideologies for a wolf are another excuse and another face.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by astralis View Postthat is USUALLY true but the real monsters come from the true believers. it explains why why Hitler died with a ring of enemies closing in and why Stalin died (probably) peacefully in bed.
Regarding Stalin he died of a stroke and was found on the floor having released some inner content. According to the reports I have read his aides knocked twice on his door and getting no reply did not dare to enter until a more senior Official arrived with business that needed his attention; it is possible therefore that if his most immediate aides had not been so petrified and entered on the first occasion they may have been able to help him. Karma I suppose.Last edited by snapper; 20 Mar 17,, 19:02.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostRegarding Stalin he died of a stroke and was found on the floor having released some inner content. According to the reports I have read his aides knocked twice on his door and getting no reply did not dare to enter until a more senior Official arrived with business that needed his attention; it is possible therefore that if his most immediate aides had not been so petrified and entered on the first occasion they may have been able to help him. Karma I suppose.Last edited by Toby; 21 Mar 17,, 00:53.
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Originally posted by Toby View PostDoes this haunt you Snapper?
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Originally posted by snapper View PostNot at all; Sic semper tyrannis! I do however ascribe to the Bukovsky theory (Vladimir Bukovsky being an old Soviet era dissident) that a public trial and 'bearing all' of the atrocities of the shootings, the Holodomor, the gulags, the 'disappearances' and other forms of enslavement and murder was required to seal the Soviet grave and to bring some justice to it's millions of victims. Bukovsky argues that the real rulers of any dictatorial state are it's secret police; the Gestapo and SS in Nazi Germany and the Cheka/NKVD/KGB/FSB in Muscovy; to do away with the regime their crimes must be exposed and 'laid bare'. In the Nazi case this was done at Nuremberg, the networks were undone and disgraced. When the Soviet regime imploded - as a former US Ambassador to Moscow (McFaul) has said "This new era crept up on us, because we did not fully win the Cold War"; and so the secret police state remained in place and it''s return was always possible if not likely; it is no accident that Putin is a former KGB man. We are paying now for not winning more completely and exposing the rotten hypocrisy and many atrocities of the Chekists in their red clothing; a change of image means nothing to these people. As Bukovsky said in 2002 "Having failed to finish off conclusively the communist system, we are now in danger of integrating the resulting monster into our world. It may not be called communism anymore, but it retained many of its dangerous characteristics… Until the Nuremberg-style tribunal passes its judgement on all the crimes committed by communism, it is not dead and the war is not over." More victims and still no justice for the countless earlier ones... This time we must kill it dead.
But, you can always bar them from Eurovision. What a load of crap.No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
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Originally posted by Doktor View PostWe? Kill? Whom? You can't kill them abroad, yet alone at home.
I always said it is better for Ukrainian forces to capture rather than kill Muscovites; I never had any desire to kill them anyway as there is a Muscovite branch of my family and one of our cousins living in our home in Ukraine now. The answer is to defeat them and show the captive soldiers to Muscovite people. Let them write letters, send emails or phone home since public display of POWs is arguably illegal. Treat them well etc... We are not 'fascists' or even anti Muscovite by nature, merely by force since they have invaded Ukraine. We wish the same liberties for them that we wish for us; our Government is still corrupt and theirs is worse. We have common cause. We got rid of our wannabe dictator so can you... That of course Putin understood and why he invaded Ukraine; the dreaded 'colour revolution' at home and that is his still key weakness should he be seen to clearly fail.
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