Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 98

Thread: 'History Created' Says PM After India, Iran, Afghan Sign Trade Corridor Pact

  1. #61
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Most of what you wrote makes sense, but I guess it's too early to say how things would shape up. Who knew India thought of Pakistan as a buffer between communist USSR and India? I see both Indian & US priorities changing (it needs time, another decade or so), and if I might add there's no reliance on Afghanistan, it's probably is about making the Paks go even more deranged than what they already are. It's fun.

  2. #62
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Who knew India thought of Pakistan as a buffer between communist USSR and India?
    I suggest you take that as nothing more than advertisement for toilet paper. It's nothing more than revisionist horsepuckey. If that were the case, India would be slipping intel to Pakistan about Soviet movements. They didn't.
    Chimo

  3. #63
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    15 Dec 06
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    As for Afghanistan. Again, it's a fucked up failed country. How can you even rely on them?
    I don't see where India or Iran are relying on Afghanistan. Sure, they are part of the deal, as in if they want to benefit from it (and mutually benefit Iran and India in turn), the way is open. If they don't or can't, the port and railway line are valuable by themselves, without Afghan involvement.

  4. #64
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    If the rail line stops at the Afghan border. It doesn't. Now, how much of that $400 million dollar steel that you're donating is going to disappear?
    Chimo

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    I suggest you take that as nothing more than advertisement for toilet paper. It's nothing more than revisionist horsepuckey. If that were the case, India would be slipping intel to Pakistan about Soviet movements. They didn't.
    That came from a recently declassified document and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act. It is titled "The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US".

  6. #66
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    If the rail line stops at the Afghan border. It doesn't. Now, how much of that $400 million dollar steel that you're donating is going to disappear?
    There is another longer route, from Iran to Turkmenistan and the rest of the CAR countries.

    Name:  Land Route.jpg
Views: 493
Size:  193.9 KB

  7. #67
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    That came from a recently declassified document and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act. It is titled "The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US".
    Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
    Chimo

  8. #68
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
    True.

    But its also true that even prior to the CIA, it was a British assessment that the Americans inherited and believed to be true. History tells us that it was wrong. The Soviets didn't plan to invade Pakistan and sweep down to Karachi to have their much touted "warm water port".

    The birth of Pakistan in fact, is also in one way or the other an outcome of that flawed British assessment and mired in the complexities of the "Great Game" and this was something that the British made the Congress privy to, while still drawing the contours of the partition. Fortunately or unfortunately, Congress and its leaders too, bought that assessment, fearing another colonial rule, may be this time even worse.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  9. #69
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    History is created? How? Delta?

    History will be created when US SOF acquires Pakistani nukes, and renders Pakistan at the mercy of the Indian Army.
    ......
    ......
    ......
    .........
    ..........
    ...........
    ...............
    .................
    Just wait for it. That time is coming soon.
    He heheee :-)
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  10. #70
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Deltacamelately View Post
    He heheee :-)
    Just playing around with Pakistani paranoia, who knows I'd be quoted around on Pak media. :-) But, you probably haven't seen recent Pakistani talk shows about CPEC, MTCR, NSG, Modi's US Congress address, they're saying that R&AW, MOSSAD & CIA have plans to snatch Pak nukes. It's hilarious. :-)

  11. #71
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Just playing around with Pakistani paranoia, who knows I'd be quoted around on Pak media. :-) But, you probably haven't seen recent Pakistani talk shows about CPEC, MTCR, NSG, Modi's US Congress address, they're saying that R&AW, MOSSAD & CIA have plans to snatch Pak nukes. It's hilarious. :-)
    Their sense of fantasy is like a fable. I feel jealous.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  12. #72
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
    So the issue is settled unless the Indian Foreign office releases documents of that era.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deltacamelately View Post
    True.

    But its also true that even prior to the CIA, it was a British assessment that the Americans inherited and believed to be true. History tells us that it was wrong. The Soviets didn't plan to invade Pakistan and sweep down to Karachi to have their much touted "warm water port".

    The birth of Pakistan in fact, is also in one way or the other an outcome of that flawed British assessment and mired in the complexities of the "Great Game" and this was something that the British made the Congress privy to, while still drawing the contours of the partition. Fortunately or unfortunately, Congress and its leaders too, bought that assessment, fearing another colonial rule, may be this time even worse.
    An American colony after a Brit one?

    Whatever I think of the Chabahar port, I can't seem to find any other reason other than military objectives that the Indian Government have in mind. Trade is secondary, securing maritime trading routes is primary priority. Something big is being cooked with the USGov.

  13. #73
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So the issue is settled unless the Indian Foreign office releases documents of that era.
    What we do know is that India shared no intel with Pakistan about Soviet movements in Afghanistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    An American colony after a Brit one?
    The Great Game was between The Russian Empire and the British Empire over control of Central and South Asia. The Colonel was referring to the fear of a Soviet occupation of South Asia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Whatever I think of the Chabahar port, I can't seem to find any other reason other than military objectives that the Indian Government have in mind. Trade is secondary, securing maritime trading routes is primary priority. Something big is being cooked with the USGov.
    Can't be military. You need Iran's permission to do that and this is a trade treaty, not a defence pact.
    Chimo

  14. #74
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    What we do know is that India shared no intel with Pakistan about Soviet movements in Afghanistan.
    How would India know about soviet movements in Afghanistan? I mean, okay Indian embassy/consulates were there, but unlike today where ELINT plays a large role, India probably had nothing of this kind in late 70s or 80s. Also, not a single military satellite too, back then. So how was intel gathered those days? HUMINT I know. Any idea how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The Great Game was between The Russian Empire and the British Empire over control of Central and South Asia. The Colonel was referring to the fear of a Soviet occupation of South Asia.
    So, the creation of Pakistan was not entirely for a land-mass for the Muslims of the sub-continent , but was also a British policy to stop the Soviets from colonizing India by creating Pakistan as a buffer. Or atleast that's what the Brits thought.

    How does Delta know about all of this and ordinary citizens like me don't? Classified information or information that the GoI doesn't want us to know? Congress suckers.

    You probably are also right about Chabahar port. It depends a lot upon the next POTUS. Anyway, when the port is done, we can have some trade with CAsia, giving Pak the bird.

  15. #75
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    How would India know about soviet movements in Afghanistan? I mean, okay Indian embassy/consulates were there, but unlike today where ELINT plays a large role, India probably had nothing of this kind in late 70s or 80s. Also, not a single military satellite too, back then. So how was intel gathered those days? HUMINT I know. Any idea how?
    Moscow did asked for Indian support, including military, which would include when, where, and how many Indian troops are required. The details of those requests were not shared.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So, the creation of Pakistan was not entirely for a land-mass for the Muslims of the sub-continent , but was also a British policy to stop the Soviets from colonizing India by creating Pakistan as a buffer. Or atleast that's what the Brits thought.
    At the time, the Brits couldn't leave fast enough and staying to solve the Partition Problem was not what they wanted to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    How does Delta know about all of this and ordinary citizens like me don't? Classified information or information that the GoI doesn't want us to know? Congress suckers.
    From what I've gathered, British India is not a favoured study but the information has been open source for 100s of years. Google the Great Game.
    Chimo

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Afghanistan, India sign security and trade pact
    By Tronic in forum Central and South Asia
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05 Oct 11,, 01:22
  2. Greatest invention man created throughout history?
    By EvanVolm in forum Ancient, Medieval & Early Modern Ages
    Replies: 200
    Last Post: 10 Nov 10,, 07:27
  3. Australia, RP sign defense pact
    By xrough in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01 Jun 07,, 07:00
  4. Australia, Indonesia sign security pact
    By Ironduke in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 27 Nov 06,, 12:20
  5. ISRO, NASA sign pact for Moon Mission
    By OrdinaryGuy in forum International Politics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09 May 06,, 20:28

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •