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'History Created' Says PM After India, Iran, Afghan Sign Trade Corridor Pact

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  • #61
    Most of what you wrote makes sense, but I guess it's too early to say how things would shape up. Who knew India thought of Pakistan as a buffer between communist USSR and India? I see both Indian & US priorities changing (it needs time, another decade or so), and if I might add there's no reliance on Afghanistan, it's probably is about making the Paks go even more deranged than what they already are. It's fun.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
      Who knew India thought of Pakistan as a buffer between communist USSR and India?
      I suggest you take that as nothing more than advertisement for toilet paper. It's nothing more than revisionist horsepuckey. If that were the case, India would be slipping intel to Pakistan about Soviet movements. They didn't.
      Chimo

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        As for Afghanistan. Again, it's a fucked up failed country. How can you even rely on them?
        I don't see where India or Iran are relying on Afghanistan. Sure, they are part of the deal, as in if they want to benefit from it (and mutually benefit Iran and India in turn), the way is open. If they don't or can't, the port and railway line are valuable by themselves, without Afghan involvement.

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        • #64
          If the rail line stops at the Afghan border. It doesn't. Now, how much of that $400 million dollar steel that you're donating is going to disappear?
          Chimo

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            I suggest you take that as nothing more than advertisement for toilet paper. It's nothing more than revisionist horsepuckey. If that were the case, India would be slipping intel to Pakistan about Soviet movements. They didn't.
            That came from a recently declassified document and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act. It is titled "The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US".
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              If the rail line stops at the Afghan border. It doesn't. Now, how much of that $400 million dollar steel that you're donating is going to disappear?
              There is another longer route, from Iran to Turkmenistan and the rest of the CAR countries.

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              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                That came from a recently declassified document and posted on the CIA website under the Freedom of Information Act. It is titled "The Soviet Presence in Afghanistan: Implications for the Regional Powers and the US".
                Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
                Chimo

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
                  True.

                  But its also true that even prior to the CIA, it was a British assessment that the Americans inherited and believed to be true. History tells us that it was wrong. The Soviets didn't plan to invade Pakistan and sweep down to Karachi to have their much touted "warm water port".

                  The birth of Pakistan in fact, is also in one way or the other an outcome of that flawed British assessment and mired in the complexities of the "Great Game" and this was something that the British made the Congress privy to, while still drawing the contours of the partition. Fortunately or unfortunately, Congress and its leaders too, bought that assessment, fearing another colonial rule, may be this time even worse.
                  sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    History is created? How? Delta?

                    History will be created when US SOF acquires Pakistani nukes, and renders Pakistan at the mercy of the Indian Army.
                    ......
                    ......
                    ......
                    .........
                    ..........
                    ...........
                    ...............
                    .................
                    Just wait for it. That time is coming soon.
                    He heheee :-)
                    sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Deltacamelately View Post
                      He heheee :-)
                      Just playing around with Pakistani paranoia, who knows I'd be quoted around on Pak media. :-) But, you probably haven't seen recent Pakistani talk shows about CPEC, MTCR, NSG, Modi's US Congress address, they're saying that R&AW, MOSSAD & CIA have plans to snatch Pak nukes. It's hilarious. :-)
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                        Just playing around with Pakistani paranoia, who knows I'd be quoted around on Pak media. :-) But, you probably haven't seen recent Pakistani talk shows about CPEC, MTCR, NSG, Modi's US Congress address, they're saying that R&AW, MOSSAD & CIA have plans to snatch Pak nukes. It's hilarious. :-)
                        Their sense of fantasy is like a fable. I feel jealous. ;)
                        sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Again, advertisement for toilet paper. It was a CIA assessment, ie, what they thought, not what Ghandi thought or did. The CIA was wrong. There's no documentation from India that states that Ghandi thought the same.
                          So the issue is settled unless the Indian Foreign office releases documents of that era.

                          Originally posted by Deltacamelately View Post
                          True.

                          But its also true that even prior to the CIA, it was a British assessment that the Americans inherited and believed to be true. History tells us that it was wrong. The Soviets didn't plan to invade Pakistan and sweep down to Karachi to have their much touted "warm water port".

                          The birth of Pakistan in fact, is also in one way or the other an outcome of that flawed British assessment and mired in the complexities of the "Great Game" and this was something that the British made the Congress privy to, while still drawing the contours of the partition. Fortunately or unfortunately, Congress and its leaders too, bought that assessment, fearing another colonial rule, may be this time even worse.
                          An American colony after a Brit one?

                          Whatever I think of the Chabahar port, I can't seem to find any other reason other than military objectives that the Indian Government have in mind. Trade is secondary, securing maritime trading routes is primary priority. Something big is being cooked with the USGov.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            So the issue is settled unless the Indian Foreign office releases documents of that era.
                            What we do know is that India shared no intel with Pakistan about Soviet movements in Afghanistan.

                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            An American colony after a Brit one?
                            The Great Game was between The Russian Empire and the British Empire over control of Central and South Asia. The Colonel was referring to the fear of a Soviet occupation of South Asia.

                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                            Whatever I think of the Chabahar port, I can't seem to find any other reason other than military objectives that the Indian Government have in mind. Trade is secondary, securing maritime trading routes is primary priority. Something big is being cooked with the USGov.
                            Can't be military. You need Iran's permission to do that and this is a trade treaty, not a defence pact.
                            Chimo

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              What we do know is that India shared no intel with Pakistan about Soviet movements in Afghanistan.
                              How would India know about soviet movements in Afghanistan? I mean, okay Indian embassy/consulates were there, but unlike today where ELINT plays a large role, India probably had nothing of this kind in late 70s or 80s. Also, not a single military satellite too, back then. So how was intel gathered those days? HUMINT I know. Any idea how?

                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              The Great Game was between The Russian Empire and the British Empire over control of Central and South Asia. The Colonel was referring to the fear of a Soviet occupation of South Asia.
                              So, the creation of Pakistan was not entirely for a land-mass for the Muslims of the sub-continent , but was also a British policy to stop the Soviets from colonizing India by creating Pakistan as a buffer. Or atleast that's what the Brits thought.

                              How does Delta know about all of this and ordinary citizens like me don't? Classified information or information that the GoI doesn't want us to know? Congress suckers.

                              You probably are also right about Chabahar port. It depends a lot upon the next POTUS. Anyway, when the port is done, we can have some trade with CAsia, giving Pak the bird.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                How would India know about soviet movements in Afghanistan? I mean, okay Indian embassy/consulates were there, but unlike today where ELINT plays a large role, India probably had nothing of this kind in late 70s or 80s. Also, not a single military satellite too, back then. So how was intel gathered those days? HUMINT I know. Any idea how?
                                Moscow did asked for Indian support, including military, which would include when, where, and how many Indian troops are required. The details of those requests were not shared.

                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                So, the creation of Pakistan was not entirely for a land-mass for the Muslims of the sub-continent , but was also a British policy to stop the Soviets from colonizing India by creating Pakistan as a buffer. Or atleast that's what the Brits thought.
                                At the time, the Brits couldn't leave fast enough and staying to solve the Partition Problem was not what they wanted to do.

                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                How does Delta know about all of this and ordinary citizens like me don't? Classified information or information that the GoI doesn't want us to know? Congress suckers.
                                From what I've gathered, British India is not a favoured study but the information has been open source for 100s of years. Google the Great Game.
                                Chimo

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