Originally posted by astralis
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The Obama Doctrine
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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Leibniz
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pari,
I agree, I just don't think China does, which seemed entirely likely to me at the time. They've moved since the announcement to making the China Sea into China's Sea.
as for making it "China's Sea", well:
http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/us-so...ity-commander/There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by troung View Post
He was elected to make the tough decisions, not to run a popularity contest.
And if he was a fan of Bush Sr and his team, he should have known that there these war veterans had an end game in mind. Democracy wasn't it.
And how quickly the author and Obama forget why we went into Afghanistan in the first place. It ain't to bring the ballot box to Khandahar.Chimo
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Originally posted by officer of engineers View Posti read the whole thing and the thing that jumps out is that obama is spineless. He lost his nerve the night of the attack on assad's chems and the facts on the ground did not change. His justification is political (uk parliament voted no and american polls disdain another war) that overruled his own personal convictions that assad must not be allowed to get away with using chems.
He was elected to make the tough decisions, not to run a popularity contest.
And if he was a fan of bush sr and his team, he should have known that there these war veterans had an end game in mind. Democracy wasn't it.
And how quickly the author and obama forget why we went into afghanistan in the first place. It ain't to bring the ballot box to khandahar.
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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Leibniz
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Originally posted by astralis View Postsnapper,
diplomacy is -part- of the execution of a strategy. a strategy does NOT -need- to be secret squirrelly at all times, and in fact quite often shouldn't be. there can be value in predictability. that's why there's a thing called public diplomacy and a State Department.
that's why for major initiatives we announce things, like the way Reagan announced the Star Wars program, or Truman announced the Marshall Plan. or how Monroe announced the Monroe Doctrine. shall i go on?
Originally posted by astralis View Postit should not be that difficult to understand that there ARE aspects of foreign policy that should be loudly announced, and other aspects that should not be discussed at all with outsiders.
Originally posted by astralis View Posti'd say removing chems from Syria is a pretty successful bluff, although I do agree that the red line rhetoric shouldn't have been used publicly.
Originally posted by astralis View Posthaving said that, any decision to remove Assad by the US should be done on the basis of US interests, and not just because Assad was a monster to his people.
Originally posted by astralis View Postlol, and the removal of Saddam Hussein/Gaddafi largely ended the internal divisions within Iraq/Libya and the opposition wasn't so extremist afterwards?
Originally posted by astralis View Postseriously, READ UP on the establishment of ISIS. it grew from AQI and it largely started due to insurgent cross-mix at Camp Bucca. Gen Odierno assessed back in 2010 that ISIS was 80% Iraqi, and the reason why it exploded was because they leveraged the considerable wealth they captured following the fall of Mosul.
Originally posted by astralis View Postmoreover i'm still curious as to whom would the occupation of Syria be "outsourced" to, considering that no one is jumping to occupy Libya.
The answer reason why it was not done (I believe) is that US Naval assets would have been required to sustain a long term peace keeping force. I was told by a friend at the time that the Italians were preparing their troops and that the majority of European nations supported a peace keeping operation but the US wasn't interested.
Originally posted by astralis View Postif the Italians wanted to do it, they would have. they assuredly have the capability, just as the French had the capability to execute Operation Unicorn, or how both the French and the Germans intervened in Mali. blaming Italian non-intervention because the US wasn't on board is ridiculous.
Your social worker President has presided over farce after farce because he never had a policy nor a Foreign Policy 'doctrine' and now you attempt to wrap up eight years of misjudgement and confusion and call it a 'doctrine'; you are not fooling anyone outside the US. Tell me with the benefit of hindsight if the Russian "Reset" was a success? The "Red Line" in Syria? The defence cuts? Who do you think benefits from him publicly criticing Britain and France? We know this is not because all the US personnel in the field are useless - some of them are brilliant but their advice is not accepted by the Obama administration. An unmitigated disaster for the West in general and a Lady who spills Classified Information in her emails because she refuses to conform to the standards and obligations of an everyday staff level employee, lies consistently and blames all on bi partisanship bias ain't likely to do better sadly. When you get it wrong a strong person owns up and doesn't blame others. I suppose this is 'legacy' laying though... what a prat Obama is. I could count twenty colleagues in a minute who have more sense, balls and honour than this clueless President.
"Someone sounds a little bitter as though the US has not done enough or should do more. Luckily you can only have an opinion..."
Many of us in Europe are very aware that we should and must do alot more to maintain our own security but when you claim to be the world super power - and in fact are - having a social worker run your foreign policy is not a recipe for success. You may not like it but there are serious bastards in this world; go look at a Syrian/Ukrainian hospital ward. Sure they are not near you at present and you can be thankful for that but if you imagine they do not exist and "Reset"/draw "Red lines" which you fail to back up you are giving them encouragement and sooner or later they will come knocking on your door if you don't knock on theirs first. Si vis parem, para bellum and do NOT inform the bastards of your intentions.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostI read the whole thing and the thing that jumps out is that Obama is spineless.
"____ has a chance of destabilizing Europe" The US needs to step in and stop them" The American people are tired of it. We say "No, You need to stop it. We will provide support but its in your neighborhood, not ours.
We finally have a post cold war President that puts the American People before the rest of the world. Thats what he was elected to do
He was elected to make the tough decisions, not to run a popularity contest.
And how quickly the author and Obama forget why we went into Afghanistan in the first place. It ain't to bring the ballot box to Khandahar.Last edited by Gun Grape; 12 Mar 16,, 16:27.
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GS, that wasn't my point. My point was he made a decision based on his own convictions that Assad should be punished. He backed down from it because it was unpopular. That was the tough decision I was referring to. Hell, no one in his cabinet even thought of punishing Assad. He did.
I was against going into Libya and I was surprised that Obama went in but he took the leadership role without thinking how to hand that off. And Indeed, we had to choose a Canadian to take over. Real good leadership hand off there.Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 12 Mar 16,, 16:27.Chimo
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"The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck
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Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
The country that you are trying to instill democracy in has to want it. And want it more than you want them to have it. They don't want it, never wanted it.
F*6k them. Not another American should die there
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Originally posted by Gun Grape View PostThe country that you are trying to instill democracy in has to want it. And want it more than you want them to have it. They don't want it, never wanted it.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostHmm and Ukraine? The European missile shield? Supporting your allies and not publicly criticising them?
Being a superpower means that we can interfere in other countries policies/actions when its in OUR best interest. Ukraine doesn't meet that standard.
Our "Allies" have had no problem criticizing us for decades. Why should we keep our mouths shut?
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