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  • #16
    It's a small scale experiment at this moment. Ontario has to decide where and when to implement this experiment and thus far, no such announcement has been made. They have to find a community far enough away so not to draw in more people but close enough so that enough work is available so there is a way to improve yourself instead of relying on the handout.

    Good luck to Toronto for that.
    Chimo

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Stitch View Post
      Sounds like our Mexican migrants out here in California . . .
      Can you order those in hundred-packs online "to go", like you can do here? (seriously)

      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Over here is regulation or what is seemingly over regulation. A slaughter barn just closed about a month ago because he was being forced to go all stainless steel including the floors in his walk in freezer and he can't sell what he had to make a small dent in the upgrade because they no longer meet code.
      Ah, we're a bit "further on" there. Slaughterhouses here are capital investment opportunities that rent out their floors to self-employed butchers. Which usually are incorporated under Polish or Romanian law to minimize the tax load on the provided service. The regulation squeeze-out hit the market here thirty years ago, although some changes in customer demand has given rise to smaller agricultural enterprises again in the past five years.

      Plus those villages where smaller-scale farming by individuals - not conglomerates - take place here typically have next to no unemployed or welfare cases. Tends to become a bit ridiculous sometimes, e.g. those villages (like all towns) are legally required to keep a certain amount of shelter space for homeless people. Which usually outstrips actual demand for that five- to ten-fold.

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      • #18
        No easy way to make a living ... oh wait, nanny state Ontario Liberals.
        Chimo

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        • #19
          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
          But the problem comes back to the "need" part. Someone somewhere has to determine what the "need" is. And we will have to set up a bunch of gigantic bureaucracies to make sure money is not wasted. That in itself is a waste. And since government has no profit incentive, fraud is rampant.
          Need is easy. Lots of government programs are based on need, so there is no need (!) to reinvent the wheel.
          No new bureaucracies are necessary, either. There are already offices that issue checks to those entitled to today's benefits, and making the amount different won't over-burden them.

          Fraud's fraud.
          Enforce the law.
          Trust me?
          I'm an economist!

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          • #20
            If we are going to have a future, where everything will be automated and everyone will be out of a job, then maybe we need to do this kind of thing.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FJV View Post
              If we are going to have a future, where everything will be automated and everyone will be out of a job, then maybe we need to do this kind of thing.
              In part I agree.But then it needs to be mixed with another model.The restauration of ''slavery''.So we'd have the upper class made of big corporations that make all high volume/low profit stuff .A low class of income receivers.And a mid class of robot owners,for any customized activity ranging from local production,ecological farming on small plots to specialized parts for hi-tech products.
              Those who know don't speak
              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DOR View Post
                Need is easy. Lots of government programs are based on need, so there is no need (!) to reinvent the wheel.
                No new bureaucracies are necessary, either. There are already offices that issue checks to those entitled to today's benefits, and making the amount different won't over-burden them.

                Fraud's fraud.
                Enforce the law.
                Gone to the bank this morning and saw 4th generation welfare. Good luck with that.
                Chimo

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                • #23
                  Switzerland rejected basic income in a referendum last weekend.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kato View Post
                    Switzerland rejected basic income in a referendum last weekend.
                    Pesky Swiss, don't want to pay higher taxes just to entitle their compatriots to free ride.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                    • #25
                      if you ever get the chance read David Weber's Honor Harrington series.. it shows how people that receive a basic income (called the dole, in the Honorverse) destroy a Republic..

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                      • #26
                        from an economic perspective, a basic income is pretty much the most efficient way of executing welfare. but it has extreme difficulty working in a democratic polity precisely because people think "freeloaders".
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                        • #27
                          So, here is a thought....universal service. You are already using a bureaucracy to manage the dispensing of funding. So how about if you receive dollars from the government you in turn have to give back. Work in a park, work in a daycare facility, assist orderlies in hospitals or hospice, coach youth hockey. Do something to give back to your community. You have to get up and go to work. There will be some doubters and those who are just incorrigible. But I believe most would do that willingly.

                          I wish we would do that today. We desperately need an infrastructure upgrade...how about a new CCC? And it could be administered by military veterans and retirees.
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            precisely because people think "freeloaders".
                            Interestingly there's a disconnect in surveys there though. When asked if they themselves would stop working if they got a basic income only 4% answer yes; if asked what problem they'd see with a basic income 43% answer that other people would stop working.

                            (EU e28 survey asking 10,000 EU citizens, April 2016; in the same survey 64% answered they'd vote for a basic income while 24% were against)

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                            • #29
                              ^yeah, everyone thinks they're "above average", right?

                              I like the idea of a national work service connected to a basic income. in fact, if I had my druthers there would be a National Service where at the age of 18 or 21 everyone would have to work for say, 18-24 months. at the end of the period, you start getting a basic income that will last the rest of your life.

                              if you don't have post-Service plans, you can continue working to add on to the basic income.

                              part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                              • #30
                                part of the reason why the US is so polarized today is because technology and economics tend to promote bubbles where people don't see what the rest of America is like.

                                Totally agree.

                                That's why I think all you who aren't Massholes like me are a bunch of dickheads.
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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