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Thread: Patton's Third Army in the Pacific instead of Europe

  1. #76
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You really missed the point on this one. Had Japan marched north in December of 1941, the USN would have sailed to Europe in January, 1942. Japan marches north. Japan dies and dies fast!

    And that is WITHOUT PATTON! Zhukov was a superior general than Patton.
    With Zhukov thousands of miles away engaged with the Japanese. Germany would have no one to stop them from taking all of russia from the west.
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  2. #77
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    In 1942? No one knew how good Patton was. Not even Patton!

    Oh I am sure Patten knew and he would have told anyone who asked.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    McArthur's first mission was to make Australia and the Philippines safe. After that it was to take the fight to the Japanese mainland. The strategy to get close enough for bombers to hit the mainland and eventual invasion was sound. Adding nuclear weapons was icing on the cake. I wouldn't get to hasty to compare campaigns though. Zhukov was not fighting on islands/jungles and he didn't have the Japanese navy to contend with. To be honest i don't think the American government put much stock in sending forces to China other than a few volunteers, ie flying tigers. The goal of the U.S. was to take the fight directly to the Japanese homeland and that is exactly what happened.
    Ok, you're jumping all over the place. MacArthur is a poor General. That is proven by Chinese General Li Peng, the third WWI army General who kicked MacArthur's ass.

    But that is outside the argument of this thread. The argument is what is going to kill Japan quick and hard and that is the lost of Manchuria and Korea and historically that was done via maneuver war - twice - by the Soviets.

    So tell me again, how a WWI General, MacArthur, is going do better than a maneuver General, Patton, when MacArthur could not even fathom killing the IJE through taking Manchuria and Korea.

    While by the same token, Patton got shouted down from cutting off the Bastonge salient?
    Chimo

  4. #79
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    "3 million US Marines coming their way would get their heads up real fast"

    That we can agree on. Germans respected a well trained fighting land force.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Oh I am sure Patten knew and he would have told anyone who asked.
    No one asked and no one cared, especially not FDR. BTW, Bradely was a superior General.
    Chimo

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    With Zhukov thousands of miles away engaged with the Japanese. Germany would have no one to stop them from taking all of russia from the west.
    What? Do you even know who Zhukov was?
    Chimo

  7. #82
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Zhukov was a superior general than Patton.
    The world came dangerously close to putting that to the test.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    The world came dangerously close to putting that to the test.
    There was no test. Patton was an Army General. Zhukov was a theatre General. The Western equivalent was Eisenhower. Only difference was Zhukov saw more combat than Patton and certainly more than Eisenhower.
    Chimo

  9. #84
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    But we're going outside the point of this thread. Patton could kill the IJE fast and hard, faster than what traditionally has been WWII.

    That in turn released the full US might towards Europe.

    And all because of FDR's decision to go Europe first.
    Chimo

  10. #85
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    But that was also Marshall's decision.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    But that was also Marshall's decision.
    Does not change the fact that Patton had no say in which enemy he was going to fight.
    Chimo

  12. #87
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    But we're going outside the point of this thread. Patton could kill the IJE fast and hard, faster than what traditionally has been WWII.

    That in turn released the full US might towards Europe.

    And all because of FDR's decision to go Europe first.
    I have no doubt that Patton could have done so in china. Getting to the Japanese homeland and getting Japan to surrender was not going to be that fast or easy. The wisdom at the time was that Japan was not going to surrender without being invaded and that was going to be a bloodbath for both sides. Nothing short of dropping a couple of atomic bombs changed this.
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  13. #88
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    There was no test. Patton was an Army General. Zhukov was a theatre General. The Western equivalent was Eisenhower. Only difference was Zhukov saw more combat than Patton and certainly more than Eisenhower.
    True enough. However, a war with russia would not have the same political constraints as the war with Germany for Patton. The chances are that Patton would have been fully unleashed and not have to wait for Montgomery to catch up and share in the glory. Patton would have a superior air force, and navy backing him up. Oh and Patton also had a huge advantage having nuclear bombs at his disposal.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    I have no doubt that Patton could have done so in china. Getting to the Japanese homeland and getting Japan to surrender was not going to be that fast or easy. The wisdom at the time was that Japan was not going to surrender without being invaded and that was going to be a bloodbath for both sides. Nothing short of dropping a couple of atomic bombs changed this.
    Depends on what you mean by surrender. Japan's abilities to carry on the war was out the window without Manchuria and Korea. They would have accepted starvation and freezing to death than to allow an occupation but Japanese expansion was at an end and their populace reduced to Somali level existence.
    Chimo

  15. #90
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Does not change the fact that Patton had no say in which enemy he was going to fight.
    Now that you mention it, I'm sure Patton would've been much happier killing the Japanese; as most of you know, he was all for recruiting the Germans after the War (hell, during the War!) to fight the Russians. It turns out his instincts were right, but he was about 5 years early.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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