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  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    Obama is center-right by European and perhaps even NZ standards. He's not even remotely far left by American standards, merely center-left.

    Obamacare, for example, is perhaps 10% as "socialist" as the healthcare schemes in virtually every developed country are.

    New Zealand's health care system is 10x more socialist than Obamacare.
    Of course it is. Have you not bothered listening when I've talked about specific tools for specific uses. Socialism is a useful tool for some public goods. It's crap for controlling the marketplace. Laissez faire or trickle down or thatcherism or free market or whatever label du jour is currently in vogue is useful for market places but rubbish for social policy. Neither is perfect in any respect. Thus if you look at New zealand, you see we are far to the right of you in economic policy and freedom indexes (hint: we're more 'free'), and far to the left of you in social policies. Hence we have better growth and better health and welfare statistics.
    We have comprehensive social welfare, socialised medicine and an economy that's outperformed both the US and the EU over the last thirty years.

    Oh, and re Obama, we're firm believers in both Nationalism and Tribalism. He's a liberal/socialist/internationalist/globalist/third wayist/progressive/libertarian/bullshyt-name-du-jour who'd garner maybe 15% of the vote here, if he joined the Greens. Go figure.
    Last edited by Parihaka; 11 May 17,, 19:56.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
      Because it deters and helps minimize these negative externalities. Polluters cause harm to individuals, they pay up front.
      Fines do that just fine. Prepaid services are to be used.
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by snapper View Post
        But a Government raising oil prices 6x by taxation would not hurt anyone. OK.
        What can possibly go wrong.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
          public goods.
          Air, climate, water, and the world itself are all public goods.
          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            I don't know what you choose to believe.

            I suppose if you believe that pumping tons of carbon dioxide is great for the Earth, man-made climate change is a good thing, or on the other hand, climate change is not occurring, or half the species on the planet have gone extinct naturally, or the relatively rapid warming of the Earth is the result of solar oscillations and unconnected with CO2 - then you don't see greenhouse gases as an "uncompensated downstream effect".
            Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
              Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.
              If you have actual evidence, post it up please.

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta.../#3f7789dd4c7c
              Last edited by zraver; 12 May 17,, 03:59.

              Comment


              • Who'd say

                http://washingtontimes.com/news/2017...-car-tax-hike/
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.
                  Did you come across these during your research?

                  “The United States “warming hole”: Quantifying the forced aerosol response given large internal variability”
                  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...71567/abstract

                  “Tracking regional temperature projections from the early 1990s in light of variations in regional warming, including ‘warming holes’”
                  http://rd.springer.com/article/10.10...m_term=3987228

                  “Mechanisms Contributing to the Warming Hole and the Consequent U.S. East–West Differential of Heat Extremes”
                  http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/...I-D-11-00655.1

                  “Surface temperature trend for the Northern Hemisphere-updated”
                  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...33589467900026

                  “Solar, volcanic, and CO2 forcing of recent climatic changes”
                  http://rd.springer.com/article/10.10...m_term=3987228

                  “Climate Impact of Increasing Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide”
                  http://science.sciencemag.org/content/213/4511/957

                  And, of course, this: “Anti-AGW papers debunked”
                  https://agwobserver.wordpress.com/an...pers-debunked/
                  Trust me?
                  I'm an economist!

                  Comment


                  • Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

                    Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
                    Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                      Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

                      Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
                      Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
                      I had no problem opening the actual papers ...
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                        Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

                        Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
                        Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
                        WAB version of a bitch slap

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          WAB version of a bitch slap
                          Really? I spent ages throttling it back cause as a moderator I'm supposed to, you know, be nice to people.....
                          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                          Leibniz

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            An effective bulk energy storage system already exists. It's called hydrogen.
                            Yes but;

                            A) It leaks like a bitch unless it's transported in a liquid/pressurized state which vastly increases the cost/engineering issues involved in transportation and storage; and
                            B) While we're getting closer to 'break-even' the economics of hydrogen production still don't stack up because it takes more energy to produce a given amount of hydrogen than you get from the various exothermic & chemical reactions it can be used in to produce electricity/mechanical energy.

                            So we still have to either come up with a way to produce it cheaply and efficiently on-site or otherwise overcome the production issues.

                            Not saying it isn't doable, just not yet, so in this case its in the same league as fusion i.e lots of potential but not there yet.
                            Last edited by Monash; 15 May 17,, 07:30.
                            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                              Air, climate, water, and the world itself are all public goods.

                              IRON DUKE
                              A familiar surname from the past (pre-2010 era)
                              Good to see you back !!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by xerxes View Post
                                IRON DUKE
                                A familiar surname from the past (pre-2010 era)
                                Good to see you back !!
                                Good to see you too man. I remember like it was yesterday recruiting you from the AllEmpires forum. :)

                                It's been what, a decade now?
                                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                                Comment

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