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Thread: Oil is at a 12-year low

  1. #256
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Obama is center-right by European and perhaps even NZ standards. He's not even remotely far left by American standards, merely center-left.

    Obamacare, for example, is perhaps 10% as "socialist" as the healthcare schemes in virtually every developed country are.

    New Zealand's health care system is 10x more socialist than Obamacare.
    Of course it is. Have you not bothered listening when I've talked about specific tools for specific uses. Socialism is a useful tool for some public goods. It's crap for controlling the marketplace. Laissez faire or trickle down or thatcherism or free market or whatever label du jour is currently in vogue is useful for market places but rubbish for social policy. Neither is perfect in any respect. Thus if you look at New zealand, you see we are far to the right of you in economic policy and freedom indexes (hint: we're more 'free'), and far to the left of you in social policies. Hence we have better growth and better health and welfare statistics.
    We have comprehensive social welfare, socialised medicine and an economy that's outperformed both the US and the EU over the last thirty years.

    Oh, and re Obama, we're firm believers in both Nationalism and Tribalism. He's a liberal/socialist/internationalist/globalist/third wayist/progressive/libertarian/bullshyt-name-du-jour who'd garner maybe 15% of the vote here, if he joined the Greens. Go figure.
    Last edited by Parihaka; 11 May 17, at 19:56.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

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  2. #257
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Because it deters and helps minimize these negative externalities. Polluters cause harm to individuals, they pay up front.
    Fines do that just fine. Prepaid services are to be used.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  3. #258
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    But a Government raising oil prices 6x by taxation would not hurt anyone. OK.
    What can possibly go wrong.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  4. #259
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    public goods.
    Air, climate, water, and the world itself are all public goods.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't know what you choose to believe.

    I suppose if you believe that pumping tons of carbon dioxide is great for the Earth, man-made climate change is a good thing, or on the other hand, climate change is not occurring, or half the species on the planet have gone extinct naturally, or the relatively rapid warming of the Earth is the result of solar oscillations and unconnected with CO2 - then you don't see greenhouse gases as an "uncompensated downstream effect".
    Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.
    If you have actual evidence, post it up please.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesta.../#3f7789dd4c7c
    Last edited by zraver; 12 May 17, at 03:59.

  7. #262
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  8. #263
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Still waiting for any real science that confirms AGW. I've looked to the best of my ability and people smarter than me have looked even harder. It just isn't there. Once you look past the curtain the whole thing falls apart.
    Did you come across these during your research?

    “The United States “warming hole”: Quantifying the forced aerosol response given large internal variability”
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...71567/abstract

    “Tracking regional temperature projections from the early 1990s in light of variations in regional warming, including ‘warming holes’”
    http://rd.springer.com/article/10.10...m_term=3987228

    “Mechanisms Contributing to the Warming Hole and the Consequent U.S. East–West Differential of Heat Extremes”
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/...I-D-11-00655.1

    “Surface temperature trend for the Northern Hemisphere-updated”
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...33589467900026

    “Solar, volcanic, and CO2 forcing of recent climatic changes”
    http://rd.springer.com/article/10.10...m_term=3987228

    “Climate Impact of Increasing Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide”
    http://science.sciencemag.org/content/213/4511/957

    And, of course, this: “Anti-AGW papers debunked”
    https://agwobserver.wordpress.com/an...pers-debunked/

  9. #264
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

    Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
    Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  10. #265
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

    Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
    Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
    I had no problem opening the actual papers ...

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Ah yes, the warming hole. Here's the latest actual paper rather than simply abstracts

    Timing and seasonality of the United States 'warming hole'
    Nora R Mascioli1,3, Michael Previdi2, Arlene M Fiore1 and Mingfang Ting1
    WAB version of a bitch slap

  12. #267
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    WAB version of a bitch slap
    Really? I spent ages throttling it back cause as a moderator I'm supposed to, you know, be nice to people.....
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  13. #268
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    An effective bulk energy storage system already exists. It's called hydrogen.
    Yes but;

    A) It leaks like a bitch unless it's transported in a liquid/pressurized state which vastly increases the cost/engineering issues involved in transportation and storage; and
    B) While we're getting closer to 'break-even' the economics of hydrogen production still don't stack up because it takes more energy to produce a given amount of hydrogen than you get from the various exothermic & chemical reactions it can be used in to produce electricity/mechanical energy.

    So we still have to either come up with a way to produce it cheaply and efficiently on-site or otherwise overcome the production issues.

    Not saying it isn't doable, just not yet, so in this case its in the same league as fusion i.e lots of potential but not there yet.
    Last edited by Monash; 15 May 17, at 07:30.

  14. #269
    Padishah Shahanshah Senior Contributor xerxes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Air, climate, water, and the world itself are all public goods.

    IRON DUKE
    A familiar surname from the past (pre-2010 era)
    Good to see you back !!
    If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

  15. #270
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerxes View Post
    IRON DUKE
    A familiar surname from the past (pre-2010 era)
    Good to see you back !!
    Good to see you too man. I remember like it was yesterday recruiting you from the AllEmpires forum.

    It's been what, a decade now?

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