Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910
Results 136 to 150 of 150

Thread: North Korea nuke test

  1. #136
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    8,930
    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Based on wiki the RoKAF has 18 batteries of SAM's that can be used in the ABM role. To that the RoKN and US military add more assets. The allied forces in South Korea have the ability to intercept more targets than NK can likely loft at one time since all of their truly operational missiles are liquid fueled. However, my point wasn't about missiles,but about the HARTS. In so far as conventional artillery is concerned, Seoul is not in as much danger as feared, not that it is in no danger.
    Not in as much danger? Only a couple of hundred artillery pieces can range them from hardened locations that we have suspected locations on. I'm sure the 9.9 million residents of the 2d most densely populated city in the world sleep better knowing that.

    Your still looking at 500 HART sites. 2-3000 firing positions. 4-6 thousand JDAMs= 500-750 B-2 loadouts. We have 20 B-2s total. (plane of your choice). If you don't want to go stealth then the ROKAF has 60 F-15Ks that can carry the gbu-28. The closest 15Es we have is a squadron in Alaska. A F-15E/K can carry one on the centerline. Those are the only airframes cleared for the weapon

    How many of those ABM assets are in range to protect Seoul?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  2. #137
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Not in as much danger? Only a couple of hundred artillery pieces can range them from hardened locations that we have suspected locations on. I'm sure the 9.9 million residents of the 2d most densely populated city in the world sleep better knowing that.

    Your still looking at 500 HART sites. 2-3000 firing positions. 4-6 thousand JDAMs= 500-750 B-2 loadouts. We have 20 B-2s total. (plane of your choice). If you don't want to go stealth then the ROKAF has 60 F-15Ks that can carry the gbu-28. The closest 15Es we have is a squadron in Alaska. A F-15E/K can carry one on the centerline. Those are the only airframes cleared for the weapon

    How many of those ABM assets are in range to protect Seoul?
    They don't need to take out all the concrete. What they need to do is prevent the very longest range weapons from Mass firing effectively.

  3. #138
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    8,930
    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    They don't need to take out all the concrete. What they need to do is prevent the very longest range weapons from Mass firing effectively.
    Without knowing which HARTs those weapons are at, How else do you take them out other that taking out all of the firing positions?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  4. #139
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Without knowing which HARTs those weapons are at, How else do you take them out other that taking out all of the firing positions?
    Just pointing out that there's a difference. If you frame the mission as taking out the HARTS, you have a problem that's impossible to quickly solve. If you frame the mission as stopping effective massed fires on Seoul proper, you've got options. You can hit at the C2, you can narrow down the list of sites, you can plan your initial attacks on HARTS as ones to slow or delay firing and increase the vulnerability of their arty systems rather than destroying the complexes. That opens the options to a wider range of weapon systems.

  5. #140
    Staff Emeritus
    Military Professional
    Contrary by Nature.
    zraver's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Oct 06
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,986
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Without knowing which HARTs those weapons are at, How else do you take them out other that taking out all of the firing positions?
    The HARTS for the Koskun SP artillery and the big MRL launchers have to be at least X tall and Y wide. A 122mm D30 battery needs different physical space than a Koskun. We know which HARTS are always occupied, which ones are crisis only and what general type of weapons will fit in a given HART by dimensions observed by satellite.The Koskuns have an extremely limited ammunition supply. IIRC, six rounds. They are not really mean for mobile warfare but to roll in and out of the HARTs to fire.

    Also the HARTS are not super bunkers. They mostly predate the advent of PGM's and are designed to defeat counter battery
    artillery.

  6. #141
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 09
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    3,616
    Gee, things got all quiet this week as the focus moved onto other things. I can't wait for next week's episode of "As the World Turns" or better known "As the Trump Turns". Watching this stuff is like watching a novice trying to learn how to drive a clutch and never getting it.

  7. #142
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    This is interesting:

    http://www.janes.com/images/assets/0..._influence.pdf

    Since last year, I've been harboring suspicions that Russia is secretly helping NK in the hopes that it will become a pull on US the same way China was a drain on the USSR in the late 70s and 80s. Not that these similarities prove anything, since technology transfers could have happened before the present era.

  8. #143
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    11,822
    Now I'm not a physicist or a seismologist, but I had a thought. And it may be stupid.

    Would it be possible for the North Koreans to perform underground detonations of an equivalent amount of conventional explosives, and salt it with an amount of plutonium/uranium so that radioactive debris would be detected by something like a WC-135, in conjunction with the seismological detection? ie, they have no nuclear weapons at all, but that it's possible that they have fooled the world into thinking that they do?

    It might be better to ask, what things are present in an actual fission bomb explosion that would be detectable and clearly distinct from something like I described above, eliminating salted conventional explosives as a possibility?
    Last edited by Ironduke; 26 Feb 18, at 09:16.

  9. #144
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Now I'm not a physicist or a seismologist, but I had a thought. And it may be stupid.

    Would it be possible for the North Koreans to perform underground detonations of an equivalent amount of conventional explosives, and salt it with an amount of plutonium/uranium so that radioactive debris would be detected by something like a WC-135, in conjunction with the seismological detection? ie, they have no nuclear weapons at all, but that it's possible that they have fooled the world into thinking that they do?

    It might be better to ask, what things are present in an actual fission bomb explosion that would be detectable and clearly distinct from something like I described above, eliminating salted conventional explosives as a possibility?

    I think this might have been possible with their previous tests (unless there is some specific distinguishable seismic signature that cannot be replicated by conventional explosions) but the latest one was far too big to fake.

    Also, I think you'd see significant logistical activity in shipping 10,000 tons of TNT.

  10. #145
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    11,822
    I don't think there is any detectable seismological difference between a conventional explosion and a nuclear one.

    It looks like the last test was rated at 100+ kilotons. I should have looked that up. You're right, too big to fake.

  11. #146
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    03 Sep 17
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't think there is any detectable seismological difference between a conventional explosion and a nuclear one.
    Sub-kiloton, it's hard to detect the difference but anything larger, it's relatively easy. A nuke goes off all at once. Conventional explosives goes off in a series. The explosives closes to the ignition source would go off first, igniting the rest as it goes. This build up is detectable.

  12. #147
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,878
    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Since last year, I've been harboring suspicions that Russia is secretly helping NK in the hopes that it will become a pull on US the same way China was a drain on the USSR in the late 70s and 80s. Not that these similarities prove anything, since technology transfers could have happened before the present era.
    Russia ? don't you think its China primarily responsible doing this for precisely those reasons ?

  13. #148
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    13 Nov 07
    Posts
    3,848
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Russia ? don't you think its China primarily responsible doing this for precisely those reasons ?
    No, China has no reason to. NK creates leverage for China up to a point, but also numerous hazards. The only one that will purely benefit is Russia.

  14. #149
    New Member
    Join Date
    13 Dec 18
    Posts
    1
    I think they still have hydrogen bomb.

  15. #150
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    16,345
    Quote Originally Posted by manada990 View Post
    I think they still have hydrogen bomb.
    Who? North Korea? What makes you think that?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. North Korea Suspected of Planning Rocket Test
    By xinhui in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 19 Dec 12,, 09:25
  2. North Korea seen readying for new nuclear test
    By xrough in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07 May 09,, 11:36
  3. North Korea Cancels Test Launch.
    By Maxor in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05 Apr 09,, 17:17
  4. North Korea claims nuclear test
    By Anoop C in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 289
    Last Post: 13 Mar 08,, 06:20
  5. North Korea test-fires 7th missile
    By ARH Gabriel in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06 Jul 06,, 19:40

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •