Originally posted by TopHatter
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Armed Militia takes over federal building - Oregon
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by antimony View PostYou are avoiding the question. If the Oregon Militia was replaced by Black Lives Matter activities in this very case, what would have been the response?
Is that a good enough answer?“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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From this person's perspective, the Oergon Militia is willing to accept the responsibility and the consequences for their own actions.
BLM's actions are It's the cops fault and therefore, what we do is their responsibility.
I maybe wrong. In fact, my gut reaction would have been an old fashion seige. Nothing goes in or out unless I allow it.Chimo
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Originally posted by YellowFever View PostIf this is government property in the first place, why are they buying back all the property?
Why did the Hammond ranch receive no static from the BLM until they refused to sell?
If this is government land, why can't they just tell the Hammonds to get the hell off their land?
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostBLM's actions are It's the cops fault and therefore, what we do is their responsibility.
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostI maybe wrong. In fact, my gut reaction would have been an old fashion seige. Nothing goes in or out unless I allow it.
BLM "protests" in high visibility and high population areas, complete with actions ranging from civil disturbances, paid idiots staring down cops to full-on rioting and looting.
Islamic terrorists, well, that goes without saying: Wanton killing and bombing of any innocent and unarmed civilian they see.
Which again is why this Oregon thing is being treated so "differently".“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by antimony View PostWhat a bunch of bullshit JUSTIFICATION arguments :red:
What exactly would be the reaction if this was being done by the "Black Lives Matter" folks or, Allah forbid, some Muslim fundamentalists?
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Originally posted by zraver View PostWe wish BLM, Occupy/black bloc and jihadis were this peaceful. The protesters in Oregon haven't flown a single plane into a building, haven't burned a single store during a riot, haven't tried to disrupt trade and commerce...
These Oregon idiots are idiots. Plain and simple. I can't stress that enough. Clownish idiots that are going spend a long time in prison, and richly deserve it.
But to date, they haven't hurt or killed a single person, taken a single hostage, and haven't interrupted diddly squat.
Is it any wonder they're being treated so benignly? The cops can wait them out and then haul them off to jail.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by YellowFever View PostIf this is government property in the first place, why are they buying back all the property?
Why did the Hammond ranch receive no static from the BLM until they refused to sell?
If this is government land, why can't they just tell the Hammonds to get the hell off their land?
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Originally posted by tbm3fan View PostJust repeating all I have ever read. The treaties turned the land over to the US Government and not to any one private individual. So how did they get their hands on the land is my question.
1. Article 1 section 8 clause 17 is how. When a Territory is admitted as a state it enters on what is called the Equal Footing Doctrine and takes legal possesion of all the lands within its borders. There is actually a strain of the militia movement that argues that the federal government is not legally permitted to own any land inside the states except for forts, ports and necessary buildings. Its an offshoot of the western anger at federal land practices in the west.
2. Homestead acts, before the frontier was closed the federal government would award title and deed to settlers.
3. Land sales to individuals and corporations such as mines, railroads etc.
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Originally posted by TopHatter View Post^^ This. So much THIS.
These Oregon idiots are idiots. Plain and simple. I can't stress that enough. Clownish idiots that are going spend a long time in prison, and richly deserve it.
But to date, they haven't hurt or killed a single person, taken a single hostage, and haven't interrupted diddly squat.
Is it any wonder they're being treated so benignly? The cops can wait them out and then haul them off to jail."There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
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Originally posted by TopHatter View Post^^ This. So much THIS.
These Oregon idiots are idiots. Plain and simple. I can't stress that enough. Clownish idiots that are going spend a long time in prison, and richly deserve it.
But to date, they haven't hurt or killed a single person, taken a single hostage, and haven't interrupted diddly squat.
Is it any wonder they're being treated so benignly? The cops can wait them out and then haul them off to jail.
This
Not this
As for the "treatment", I still don't see Bundy being asked to pay the dues he owes and I doubt if any of these "clownish idiots" spend any time in prison."Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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As more of a local than most here, will put in my 2 cents.
There is no good guy and bad guy here. On one side you have the BLM which is run more by accountants than by people who actually know what is going on in the land. Even worse, they take their orders from higher up on the food chain and that is where politics and agendas trump common sense. During the heydays of logging 1970's to the crash in the 1990'2 the BLM made a lot of land swaps which infuriated local land owners. Then there was the usual government heavy handed tactics against small land owners and ranchers which planted the seeds of discontent that ranchers are still bitter about.
On the other side is the issue of "ownership" when dealing with public lands. Oregon is full of public land where the locals believe their say is the only say and it is all "their back yard so they can do as they please" mentality. I have had to deal with ranchers quite a bit while hunting and camping so I can say that ranchers are just like everyone else. There are those who see the big picture and understand their place in the world and there are those who think the world owes them everything. By and large, most just want you to not do anything stupid and close the gates behind you and all is well. They just want to make a living with as few hassles as possible. Others are damned difficult to get along with. They hate the idea of "public land" and will do everything possible to keep people off of government land even though their lease agreements say otherwise. Then you have the Al Sharpton counterparts who scan the media for news and rush in to push their agenda and take over. This is what happened in Oregon.
The thing is that these types of conflicts are not new. In many ways nothing has changed since the 1800's as far as fighting for land and the rights afforded to the land. Every year there is something stirring the pot and some relevant court battle. It is just off the radar for people who live in the East.."city folk". The building in question that is taken over is near the town and I can assure you the militia has the town's sympathies so going in guns blazing is the worst thing the government can do. Cut off the power and isolate it and it is just a matter of time before they get cold enough and hungry enough to see the folly of their ways…especially as the two they came to defend are already back in jail. No one was or is in any danger and no malls or airports had to be shut down. In fact if it hadn't made the news, no one would have known.Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.
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Which is why (if I'm reading what you said correctly) comparing this to BLM or Muslim terrorists is a non-starter.
BLM "protests" in high visibility and high population areas, complete with actions ranging from civil disturbances, paid idiots staring down cops to full-on rioting and looting.
Islamic terrorists, well, that goes without saying: Wanton killing and bombing of any innocent and unarmed civilian they see.
Which again is why this Oregon thing is being treated so "differently".
both BLM and OWS were/are urban movements, involving significant numbers of people in a densely-populated area. the idiots threatening violence were the exceptions, not the rule (otherwise things would be much worse than it actually was).
this is simply hooliganism and vigilante "justice" dressed up as a movement, in an empty area. threatening violence IS the rule here. one of the reasons why these "militia" members are armed is to make it -deliberately harder- for them to get punished; otherwise, why not just link arms and willingly go to jail in protest?
they're DARING the government to use lethal force. that's not accepting responsibility for their actions at all.
this story would be significantly different if they kept their arms at home. but they didn't.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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