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Thread: HMS Queen Elizabeth

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    This all sounds like budget constraints to me from the MOD
    Well the RN invented the angle deck, steam catapult and the big one the Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System. The ski ramp is in their doctrine and to change that would be expensive also isn't a response to abandoning the catobar late in the program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed View Post
    Well with no ski ramp you have more area to arm fuel park and move air craft. Oh and the F-35 operate well above the v-22, helicopters envelope fuel economy and all. What they can't perform ops in a contested environment. I know we American are a simple some time pragmatic people they move aircraft. Like MH-53 and V-22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRmhJbu8rLU . The take off roll of all these aircraft don't take that long, but arming fueling etc do. The USN feels that the space not wasted on a ramp can be used for those activities.

    The RN is going for roll on landings with the F-35. that is going to cut into the available operating area on the QE. Vertical landing uses a lot less real estate but it cuts into endurance and bring back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhnUv5Axbuo

    I am just civilian but I imagine as all of the above. They launch the Helo first followed by the V-22 wait and than launch the f-35's
    All good info...I'm just wondering how you launch Helos as well as F35B's in a volatile environment from one Assault ship and not create unnecessary risks. I understand the limitations and the advantages of a Ski jump and the slow speed landing that you posted about and that was great info that no news program has told us about here in the UK. The other thing I realise is that the design of the America class of Assault ship is in flux because of the differing demands of this class of ship. Its meant to be an amphibious assault ship and yet the marine corp want the F35B...which is creating all kinds of problems with flight deck etc

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    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    What's the thought process behind the two islands...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JA Boomer View Post
    What's the thought process behind the two islands...?
    Front island focus on operating the ship, rear island focus on flight ops.

  5. #140
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Each island also stores an exhaust stack.

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    The primary reason for having twin islands as surf gun has said was to space out the funnels There are also additional benefits to having separate islands rather than a single large island,
    1. The two towers reduce the upset air behind the ship for approaching aircraft.
    2. Having these two functions in two separate structures allows FlyCo to have an uninterrupted view of the entire working flight deck, much like the Control Tower of an airfield.
    3. Reduced wind turbulence
    4. Freed up deck space

  7. #142
    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, makes some sense.

  8. #143
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    All good info...I'm just wondering how you launch Helos as well as F35B's in a volatile environment from one Assault ship and not create unnecessary risks. I understand the limitations and the advantages of a Ski jump and the slow speed landing that you posted about and that was great info that no news program has told us about here in the UK. The other thing I realise is that the design of the America class of Assault ship is in flux because of the differing demands of this class of ship. Its meant to be an amphibious assault ship and yet the marine corp want the F35B...which is creating all kinds of problems with flight deck etc
    The same way the QE will do it. Only faster, because the America has more deck spots for helos and an uncluttered flight deck. You don't run fixed wing and helo ops concurrent. Even on a Nimitz class carrier. Not because of deck space/layout, but because of the different wind currents generated by the planes/helos.

    The problems with the flight deck are heat related. The 35 exhaust is hotter than the AV-8s. But by doing a vertical landing I can get more planes on deck in a shorter amount of time than doing a rolling landing. Faster turn around time
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    The same way the QE will do it. Only faster, because the America has more deck spots for helos and an uncluttered flight deck. You don't run fixed wing and helo ops concurrent. Even on a Nimitz class carrier. Not because of deck space/layout, but because of the different wind currents generated by the planes/helos.

    The problems with the flight deck are heat related. The 35 exhaust is hotter than the AV-8s. But by doing a vertical landing I can get more planes on deck in a shorter amount of time than doing a rolling landing. Faster turn around time
    My reading on the America is that greater emphasis has been put on the flight deck at the cost of the amphibious component which is raising questions about design. Trying to read in between the lines here but it sounds like the Tech is pushing the designers (both UK and US) into a suck it and see dilemma..it sounds like a very fluid environment in terms of design.

  10. #145
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 04 Feb 18, at 22:49. Reason: Acronyms
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    Thats great info thanks... Glad you explained the abbreviations.... BLT is a sandwich here lol
    Last edited by Toby; 04 Feb 18, at 23:30.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by gun grape View Post
    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as cmc and he wanted his own a/c carriers to command. Yes a marine can be the esg commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn pogue
    lol!

  13. #148
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    Completely unrelated. I re-watched The Final Countdown on the weekend. Great movie. They did a wonderful job of utilizing almost every aircraft in the 1980 air wing! It's too bad current air wings are so vanilla.

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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    I'm sorry Gunny (no I'm not) but reading the above I am reminded of this scene from one of my favorites


    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

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