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Thread: Ukraine: Snapper vs Troung

  1. #1
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Ukraine: Snapper vs Troung

    500 million people just went to war with ISIS as of 10 am this morning.
    Empty formality.

    =======
    When Ukraine is attacked on a daily basis - six Ukrainian soldiers dead in the last couple of days - these 'good Europeans' Germany and France urge us that there can 'only be a diplomatic solution'. Why is it different when France is attacked? P
    Russia is a whole lot more powerful than ISIS and the Ukraine is a basket case. In addition Russia is bombing ISIS.

    There are 129 dead in Paris and we all regret and denounce those responsible but there are over 8,000 officially dead from agression against Ukraine and literally hundreds of thousands dead at the hands of the criminal Assad regime. Are French people in some way intrinsically worth more than others that everyone must now ignore these other crimes and join the French revenge war?
    Wake me up when Facebook asks me to change my profile pic.

    In general I agree with the idea that 'European unity' if it is to exist, must exclude any deal with the Muscovite Midget.
    The Ukraine has a beggars cup out, they don't have an opinion.

    Who gives the French President the right to even discuss such deals regarding the rights of people who are not his fellow citizens?
    See above.

    ================
    It's all for show. France will drop some bombs like how we lobbed a few dozen Tomahawks at some supposed Al Queda training center in 1996 and call it quits. And then Billy would claim he missed Osama by just a few hours...
    x2

    America will have to get revenge I guess...
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...inst-isis.html
    French President Francois Hollande reportedly will call on President Barack Obama to step up military action against the ISIS terror group when the two leaders meet in Washington next week.

    Hollande will meet with Obama on Nov. 24, eleven days after a series of shootings and bombings in Paris by ISIS terrorists killed 129 people and injured more than 350 others. A European diplomat told the Guardian newspaper that Hollande is expected to impress on Obama the necessity of stronger action against ISIS.

    "The message that we want to send to the Americans is simply that the crisis is destabilizing Europe," the diplomat told The Guardian. "The problem is that the attacks in Paris and the refugee crisis show that we don’t have time. There is an emergency."

    Obama's strategy against ISIS has come in for increasing criticism in the wake of the Paris assaults, with critics seeing the use of a relatively small number of air strikes as feckless.

    "Thousands of airstrikes against ISIL targets have conjured the illusion of progress, but they have produced little in the way of decisive battlefield effects," Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said Tuesday, using another acronym for the terror group.
    Last edited by troung; 21 Nov 15, at 07:15.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Russia is a whole lot more powerful than ISIS and the Ukraine is a basket case. In addition Russia is bombing ISIS.
    Russia is hardly bombing ISIS at all. Other European nations have been bombing ISIS for a considerably longer time. Ukrainian GDP will grow in 2016 (predicts the IMF) while the Muscovite economy will contract further.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Wake me up when Facebook asks me to change my profile pic.
    What? Do you what you like with your Facebook profile; personally I advise closing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    The Ukraine has a beggars cup out, they don't have an opinion.
    Not sure you really understand democracy or what a rules based system means; there is no wealth requirement to vote but if Ukraine should have no say because it is due to receive some $20-25bn of loans what of Greece which has received between $250 to $300bn of loans?

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Russia is hardly bombing ISIS at all. Other European nations have been bombing ISIS for a considerably longer time. Ukrainian GDP will grow in 2016 (predicts the IMF) while the Muscovite economy will contract further.
    Russia is actively bombing ISIS, is a serious player in the Syrian conflict, and is far too strong for anyone to bomb over the Ukraine.

    What? Do you what you like with your Facebook profile; personally I advise closing it.
    Facebook asked me if I wanted to use the tricolour, clearly they don't care about the Ukraine or Nigeria or whoever else. Yes lots of lives matter less than others.

    Not sure you really understand democracy or what a rules based system means; there is no wealth requirement to vote but if Ukraine should have no say because it is due to receive some $20-25bn of loans what of Greece which has received between $250 to $300bn of loans?
    International diplomacy is not a democracy. 126 French deaths matter more than every single person in the Ukraine as far as the average French person is considered for this news cycle at least.

    ==================
    http://www.indiatimes.com/news/world...ks-247560.html
    Russian forces are scrawling 'For Paris' and 'For The People' across the bombs that they are dropping on ISIS forces in Syria.

    "For our people! For Paris! Pilots and technicians of #Hmeymim airbase sent a message to terrorists by airmail," the Russian defence ministry said on its official Twitter account.

    "The armed forces are conducting an aerial campaign of retribution," the defence ministry said in a separate statement, adding the military had begun coordinating their operations with the French.

    Earlier this week Russian President Vladimir Putin pledged to hunt down and "punish" those behind a bomb attack that brought down a passenger jet over Sinai last month, killing all 224 people, mostly Russian holidaymakers, on board.

    After the carnage in Paris which claimed the lives of 130 people Putin and French President Francois Hollande agreed to "ensure closer contact and coordination" in their countries' operations in Syria.

    The two leaders will meet at the Kremlin next week.
    Meanwhile in the Ukraine...
    Last edited by troung; 22 Nov 15, at 00:36.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Russia is actively bombing ISIS, is a serious player in the Syrian conflict, and is far too strong for anyone to bomb over the Ukraine.
    Russia is NOT "actively bombing ISIS" or have you been asleep the last five weeks?

    I am not saying that the French deaths do not matter but the point of a rules based system is that the rules (or law) must be applied to all equally. It doesn't matter if I murder a homeless vagrant or a millionaire businessman, I still get tried for murder. I believe in English law the saying is that "you take you victim as you find him" or something like that. When a law is broken it doesn't matter who the victim is; the law must be upheld regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Meanwhile in the Ukraine...
    Crimea is in a 'State of Emergency' and without power after the Tartars, who have been blockading food shipments from Ukraine for a couple of months, blew up some electricity pylons on Friday night. How soon can you build that bridge?

  5. #5
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Russia is NOT "actively bombing ISIS" or have you been asleep the last five weeks?
    They are, along with bombing AB/MB targets in support of pro-government forces. In addition a large number of Russians were recently killed in an ISIS attack. France has a common enemy with Russia.

    I am not saying that the French deaths do not matter
    Yes you are - you sound like one of those BLM goofs who were angry the Paris events were taking away media coverage of their own stories.

    but the point of a rules based system is that the rules (or law) must be applied to all equally. It doesn't matter if I murder a homeless vagrant or a millionaire businessman, I still get tried for murder. When a law is broken it doesn't matter who the victim is; the law must be upheld regardless.
    Not how the world works.

    More to the point, no one is going to attack Russia over the Crimea.

    I believe in English law the saying is that "you take you victim as you find him" or something like that.
    If you punch someone and they drop dead from a pre-existing head injury...

    Crimea is in a 'State of Emergency' and without power after the Tartars, who have been blockading food shipments from Ukraine for a couple of months, blew up some electricity pylons on Friday night. How soon can you build that bridge?
    None of that helps France get revenge.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    They are, along with bombing AB/MB targets in support of pro-government forces. In addition a large number of Russians were recently killed in an ISIS attack. France has a common enemy with Russia.
    Nobody is buying that BS. A couple of bombs on an organisation that they supported the set up steps of does not constitute a war on ISIS in which the West was engaged long before they arrived. Thankfully Syria is nothing to me but from what I have read nobody is buying your line of BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Yes you are - you sound like one of those BLM goofs who were angry the Paris events were taking away media coverage of their own stories.
    No idea what BLM is but I was born in Paris and educated by Nuns there until I was six. If you think I do not care you have misunderstood me. I merely say other dangers do not cease to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Not how the world works.

    More to the point, no one is going to attack Russia over the Crimea.
    I think it IS how the world works and must work, I recognise that the Putin mafiosi and kleptocracy wishes to tear up this 'rules based system' and that is precisely why I reject it with all my heart, body and soul. You do not understand me, ideally "Give me freedom or give me death" but life is not ideal and revolutionary changes cannot happen over night, but my family is duty bound to defend Ukraine and while I know you will support every commie or dictator that comes along you will not have Ukraine while I still breath. Nor should you underestimate the mistake that grabbing Crimea was. They will be lighting candles all over Crimea tonight. Hybrid war you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    If you punch someone and they drop dead from a pre-existing head injury...
    Drop a sandwhich from multi storey block and it hits someone with a pre-existing head injury and the negligence case follows.

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    None of that helps France get revenge.
    Revenge should and normally does not exist as a concept in foreign policy. We (nearly) all want peace and the only issues are how to get it. The only people that have proved they do not want peace recently are Assad and Putin, though they have 'allies'.

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Nobody is buying that BS. A couple of bombs on an organisation that they supported the set up steps of does not constitute a war on ISIS in which the West was engaged long before they arrived. Thankfully Syria is nothing to me but from what I have read nobody is buying your line of BS.
    Russia/Iran/Syria are fighting IS - check out Kweyris and Palmyra. They are fighting other terrorist bands as well but it is a bald faced lie to say they are not fighting IS. Russia is part of the solution to dealing with IS, the Ukraine relies on foreign aid.

    No idea what BLM is but I was born in Paris and educated by Nuns there until I was six. If you think I do not care you have misunderstood me. I merely say other dangers do not cease to exist.
    A bunch of loud mouth race baiters who ranted that the media stopped paying attention to them after the Paris attack - sort of like what you did two pages ago.

    Drop a sandwhich from multi storey block and it hits someone with a pre-existing head injury and the negligence case follows.
    You don't understand the concept. Doesn't mean the Western world has to mobilize to fight Russia. And sure doesn't mean that France should ignore ISIS and march on Moscow.

    You do not understand me, ideally "Give me freedom or give me death" but life is not ideal and revolutionary changes cannot happen over night, but my family is duty bound to defend Ukraine and while I know you will support every commie or dictator that comes along you will not have Ukraine while I still breath.
    Actually I don't care at all, just don't want my tax dollars flushed into that shithole.

    Nor should you underestimate the mistake that grabbing Crimea was. They will be lighting candles all over Crimea tonight. Hybrid war you understand.
    It's part of Russia now.

    , I recognise that the Putin mafiosi and kleptocracy wishes to tear up this 'rules based system' and that is precisely why I reject it with all my heart, body and soul.
    The Ukraine today is run by crooks.
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.VlI3Ml6JDPZ
    KIEV – The value of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s assets soared despite economic crisis and conflict while those of other tycoons shrank in an annual wealth list published Friday.

    The 50-year-old Western-backed president’s business empire ranges from chocolates to media holdings still under his control.

    Friday’s independent Novoye Vremya weekly showed the Ukrainian leader — often criticized for failing to curb the political powers of fellow tycoons — ranked as the country’s sixth-richest man.

    His assets reportedly rose by 20 percent to $979 million (€889 million) — only just supporting his claim he is no longer a billionaire.

    Poroshenko retains control of a top TV channel and has failed to follow through on his promise to sell off his Roshen chocolate empire due to a lack of foreign interest and a dearth of rich-enough investors in Ukraine itself.

    Revenge should and normally does not exist as a concept in foreign policy.
    It does. Russia can do a lot more to facilitate France's revenge and insuring the safety of Western Europe/US against IS, than the Ukraine can.

    We (nearly) all want peace and the only issues are how to get it. The only people that have proved they do not want peace recently are Assad and Putin, though they have 'allies'.
    Yawn.
    Last edited by troung; 22 Nov 15, at 22:54.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    "...It's part of Russia now..."

    "...The Ukraine today is run by crooks."


    And you have a problem with "...crooks..."?

    Who's running Russia if not "...crooks..."? Care to gander a toss at the growth in Putin's portfolio? If not, STFU.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Who's running Russia if not "...crooks..."? Care to gander a toss at the growth in Putin's portfolio? If not, STFU.
    She is pretending that the Ukraine also isn't more corrupt.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    She is pretending that the Ukraine also isn't more corrupt.
    Yes I am. We do not murder our own citizens or have you forgotten Nemtsov, Anna Politskaya, Litvenenko? Do you even know where the guy who fed dioxin to Yushchenko in 2004 is? Take a damn guess and then tell me about corruption you damn fool.

    Who murdered Nemtsov, Anna Politskaya, Litevenko? And while Ukraine is successfully reforming - and I will be first to say there is much more to do - you say Ukraine has no say and has no rights? That is frankly an insult and racist - you are the "race baiter" while I proclaim the rule of law. Ukraine is your front line of freedom of speech and if you do not back the 'non ceasefire' it will go further or are you so totally insanely in love with Putin that this is what you wish?

    If you wish to continue this boring brainwashed anti Ukrainian diatribe and Putin worship of yours contrary to all evidence of his 'good intentions' I should warn you that when they get to your country the routine is (from Soviet days) to wipe out their 'supporters' first. They are "dangerous free thinkers" in old talk. Nothing has changed; look at Donbass.

    If you truly believe as you say you do I am simply sad for you.

    I shall not reply to you again on Ukraine or Syria as it is supposed to be about France here.
    Last edited by snapper; 23 Nov 15, at 01:27.

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    I shall not reply to you again on Ukraine or Syria as it is supposed to be about France here.
    You did with your ULM shit.

    Ukraine is your front line of freedom of speech and if you do not back the 'non ceasefire' it will go further or are you so totally insanely in love with Putin that this is what you wish?
    No it's not. Sounds dramatic (and cheesy), but in reality Russia could stomp a mud hole in that "corrupt mafioso kleptocracy" and my 1st amendment rights are unaffected.

    That is frankly an insult and racist
    People don't care what poor, corrupt, weak nations think unless they have nukes and/or are really crazy. Hardly racist.

    you say Ukraine has no say and has no rights?
    You don't; it's a poor, corrupt, and very weak nation. The Ukraine doesn't get a vote in French policy towards Russia or how an air campaign over Syria is run.

    I should warn you that when they get to your country the routine is (from Soviet days) to wipe out their 'supporters' first.
    Hopefully I get an Adidas track suit.

    Yes I am. We do not murder our own citizens or have you forgotten Nemtsov, Anna Politskaya, Litvenenko? Do you even know where the guy who fed dioxin to Yushchenko in 2004 is? Take a damn guess and then tell me about corruption you damn fool.
    The Ukraine is a more corrupt nation than Russia.

    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
    Last edited by troung; 23 Nov 15, at 03:10.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    If you care to open a new thread as I am not sure your Ukraine hate belongs in a thread about the Paris attacks...

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