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Thread: Armed Confrontation Between China and India

  1. #61
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    Doh! Just realized that the division has the combat support units to push-through a meaningful unit of work and the services to sustain the work, while the independent brigades' units don't.

  2. #62
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    The Chinese economy is five times larger than India's (2.5 times in PPP terms). I don't see how the word 'rival' can be used to describe the relationship between India and China for quite a while to come. The Chinese economy is larger than the US one in PPP terms already and if it weren't for the technology gap it would be challenging the US as the second super power.

    India should just stay quiet and build up its economy while avoiding any confrontation with China at all costs.

  3. #63
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    First off, stop thinking in PPP. It's a freaking lie created by some underling asshole to make himself feel better. PPP does not exist. It has zero real world value. Just because you can buy something at home does not mean you can demand a foreigner to charge you the same thing at his home!

    PPP is a freaking lie. PERIIOD!
    Chimo

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    A country can pay its troops in its own currency. Same goes for weapons manufactured internally. International exchange rates don't matter in either case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    A country can pay its troops in its own currency. Same goes for weapons manufactured internally. International exchange rates don't matter in either case.
    Yes it does. Your soldiers got to eat and have a roof over their heads. You can conscript them for several years but you're not going to keep them unless you pay them a decent wage and THAT MEANS competitive wages vis-a-vi the other jobs out there, including overseas jobs. Your generals better be paid better than an out of college computer programmer in the US.

    Weapons have a certain cost to them no matter where they're manufactured. High quality weapons will be reflected in their price on the international market. Cheap weapons are exactly that - cheap.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Yes it does. Your soldiers got to eat and have a roof over their heads. You can conscript them for several years but you're not going to keep them unless you pay them a decent wage and THAT MEANS competitive wages vis-a-vi the other jobs out there, including overseas jobs. Your generals better be paid better than an out of college computer programmer in the US.

    Weapons have a certain cost to them no matter where they're manufactured. High quality weapons will be reflected in their price on the international market. Cheap weapons are exactly that - cheap.
    The salary of a Jawan (Private) in the Indian army is about Rs 15000, just about 250 USD per month. That's about one eighth of the pay of a Private in the US military. So India can put 8 men on the ground for roughly the same cost it takes the US to put one. And most Indians have no ability to compete in the overseas job market.

    As for quality, yes, that is true to an extent. A developing country like India purchases a large proportion of its weapons abroad for which it has to pay US dollars, but that is gradually changing as more advanced weapons systems are manufactured internally. China was the world's largest arms buyer until about 2006 but now manufactures most of its weapons systems at home.

  7. #67
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    China was the world's largest arms buyer until about 2006 but now manufactures most of its weapons systems at home.
    It seems like it is usually somewhat of an inverse relationship. An underdeveloped economy allows a country to field a ton of manpower at lower costs since there is less competition with the civilian workforce. North Korea is an extreme example where they have an army almost as large as India, with a population of only 25 million.

    On the other hand, making advanced weapons systems domestically requires a very well developed economy, large manufacturing base, and an educated workforce. These also tend to increase the standard of living in the civilian world and are usually easily exportable skills, which makes fielding a manpower intensive army more costly. Another component to this is that more advanced weapons require more logistics, and more specialists to operate. I want to say the US military has something like 10 guys in support of every man on the front lines.

    China has grown their manufacturing base and are capable of making increasingly effective weapons domestically, but they are also seriously pruning the size of the PLA as a result.
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 04 Jan 16, at 15:59.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    The salary of a Jawan (Private) in the Indian army is about Rs 15000, just about 250 USD per month.
    It is more than that now.

    So India can put 8 men on the ground for roughly the same cost it takes the US to put one.
    What the US lacks in manpower, it makes up in technology and fire power.

    And most Indians have no ability to compete in the overseas job market.
    How is this a relevant statement?...apart from it being a stupid one.

    China was the world's largest arms buyer until about 2006 but now manufactures most of its weapons systems at home
    Its tactical weapons are made at home, its strategic weapons are still of foreign origin.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    It is more than that now.
    20 K, 25 K???

    That is enough to get by in India, but try surviving in the West on 300-400 USD per month.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    What the US lacks in manpower, it makes up in technology and fire power..
    No doubt, Military potential isn't the best example for the effectiveness of PPP as a technologically advanced society and a strong currency often go hand in hand. Nevertheless, PPP has its uses, like giving a more realistic sense of one's standard of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    How is this a relevant statement?...apart from it being a stupid one.
    I didn't mean in the sense of inherent ability, but only a minority of Indians have the training, or resources to emigrate or work abroad. Its not like a Jawan can pack up and join the US military for a better salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    Its tactical weapons are made at home, its strategic weapons are still of foreign origin.
    True, but China was the world's largest arms buyer until about 10 years ago, now India is by a large margin. Give another couple of decades I am sure India will be manufacturing a larger ratio of its main strategic weapons at home. Ofcourse by then its currency will probably be trading at closer to its purchasing power vis a vis the US dollar.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    That is enough to get by in India, but try surviving in the West on 300-400 USD per month.
    Barracks fee and clothing being paid by the army? Easily done.

    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    No doubt, Military potential isn't the best example for the effectiveness of PPP as a technologically advanced society and a strong currency often go hand in hand. Nevertheless, PPP has its uses, like giving a more realistic sense of one's standard of living.
    PPP have no real world value! I am not expected to pay the same rent in Dehli as I am in New York City and I want to be in NYC instead of Dehli because I can make $millions more.

    There is a reason why Indians with Indian MD licenses driving cabs in NYC instead of practicing in India and PPP ain't it,

    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    I didn't mean in the sense of inherent ability, but only a minority of Indians have the training, or resources to emigrate or work abroad. Its not like a Jawan can pack up and join the US military for a better salary.
    Retired Indian Generals are offerred $200K a year. What does that say about your conjecture?
    Chimo

  11. #71
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    PPP have no real world value! I am not expected to pay the same rent in Dehli as I am in New York City and I want to be in NYC instead of Dehli because I can make $millions more.

    There is a reason why Indians with Indian MD licenses driving cabs in NYC instead of practicing in India and PPP ain't it,
    I'll have to disagree here. An Indian MD has a much better standard of living in India than he would have driving a cab in NYC. Much better standard of living as in having maids, gardeners, drivers, access to posh getaways; compared to driving a cab night and day, being at a lower end of the foodchain, and making just enough to pay the bills.

    It's not $$s which drive Indian MDs to drive cabs in NYC, it's opportunities... for their kids. More than money, it's politics, society, opportunity, environment which drives people out if their comfort zones leading comfortable lives to an alien frontier where their children have the opportunity to grow to their full potential.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  12. #72
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    Damned fine parents. People to be proud of.
    Chimo

  13. #73
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Damned fine parents. People to be proud of.
    Yes, indeed!
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

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