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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #271
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Sorry if anyone is on the wrong side of the Constitution. It is the law of the land. Immigrants (lawful) that came after its drafting were on notice as swearing allegiance to it.
    I don't think anyone here is on the wrong side of the Constitution and mighty damn presumptuous of you to say so.

    Oh, while at it nice touch in the highlighted bold...

  2. #272
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Sometimes the thirst of the Liberty Tree is very unpleasant.
    One needs to understand terrible sacrifice is needed to preserve freedom and liberty.
    If it was easily obtained and preserved everyone would have it.
    So, would you then agree to "sacrifice" AR-15 type assault rifles, for the sole purpose of keeping America free from mass murder?
    After all, they are easily obtained, and therefore cheaply valued.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  3. #273
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Some posters here have again fallen to the false narrative that the Armalite Rifle is a wonder weapon. It shoots an inferior round compared to the relatively superior Remington Model of 1908.
    https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rem...ded-magazines/

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    So, would you then agree to "sacrifice" AR-15 type assault rifles, for the sole purpose of keeping America free from mass murder?
    After all, they are easily obtained, and therefore cheaply valued.
    This is where you've got it wrong. The intent isn't mass murder. The intent is suicide by cop in a blaze of glory against those who wronged him.

  5. #275
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    Some posters here have again fallen to the false narrative that the Armalite Rifle is a wonder weapon. It shoots an inferior round compared to the relatively superior Remington Model of 1908.
    this...makes no sense.

    a M1903 firing a .30-06 has greater stopping power than a M4 firing a 5.56mm, but we're not substituting M4s for M1903s...

    bottom-line is that all amendments have limits. you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. there are restrictions on automatic weapons. there's nothing inherently unconstitutional about further restrictions on the type of fire-arm one can own/use, let alone magazine size or registration, etc.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #276
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    The Remington Model 8, was a semi automatic in .35 Remington.

  7. #277
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    which is pointless to bring up, because as far as I know mass shooters don't favor the Remington Model 8 to do their deed, for a variety of reasons.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #278
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    which is pointless to bring up, because as far as I know mass shooters don't favor the Remington Model 8 to do their deed, for a variety of reasons.
    The point is if Remington discontinued their gas impingement .223’s and if Remington resumed production of the more powerful .35 Remington caliber semi automatic rifles or modified it to take the varmint round you would be Okay with it?

    It would be back to the future (1908).

  9. #279
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    these theoretical discussions have little in connection with reality. as I said, mass shooters COULD use any variety of semiautos or historical rifles to do their deed. they COULD use a garand, or a M1903, or for that matter a model 1873 Winchester.

    they don't. so deal with the problems as they are, not as they could be. if one day we see a mass shooter gunning down 20 children with a Remington Model 8, then yea, let's have a conversation about effective ways to stop -that-.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    which is pointless to bring up, because as far as I know mass shooters don't favor the Remington Model 8 to do their deed, for a variety of reasons.
    Which again brings up the point that if there were an absense of AR15s/AK47s, would that have prevented mass shootings or would would those shooters resort to more powerful and thus, more lethal firearms?

    Do you even want to imagine a scenario with a 12 guage and double O?
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 14 Nov 19, at 16:56.

  11. #281
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    Which again brings up the point that if there were an absense of AR15s/AK47s, would that have prevented mass shootings or would would those shooters resort to more powerful and thus, more lethal firearms?

    Do you even want to imagine a scenario with a 12 guage and double O?
    yet the fact is that the rate of mass shooting occurrence has sharply increased in the last 15 years, roughly tracking the increase in popularity of the AR-15 rifle and its many variants.

    Sandy Hook, the Vegas shooting, the Florida HS shooting, the NZ mosque shooting, the Pittsburgh synagogue-- all conducted with AR-15 variants.

    the issue of there being other "more powerful/more lethal" firearms is sort of moot, because 1.) they're not being used now, and 2.) they were also present in the past, yet more mass shootings/deaths from mass shootings are happening -now-.

    in the context of what is possible under the American legal system, i'll take the trade-off between round lethality and rate of fire. it's the same calculation that most militaries in the world made when they switched from battle rifles to "assault rifles" back in the 1950s-1960s.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    yet the fact is that the rate of mass shooting occurrence has sharply increased in the last 15 years, roughly tracking the increase in popularity of the AR-15 rifle and its many variants.
    Actually false. Mass shootings have increased in white neighbourhoods. Nobody cares about the gang lands where handguns dominate.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the issue of there being other "more powerful/more lethal" firearms is sort of moot, because 1.) they're not being used now, and 2.) they were also present in the past, yet more mass shootings/deaths from mass shootings are happening -now-.
    Prohibition and the Thompson submachine gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    in the context of what is possible under the American legal system, i'll take the trade-off between round lethality and rate of fire. it's the same calculation that most militaries in the world made when they switched from battle rifles to "assault rifles" back in the 1950s-1960s.
    That's because of the AK47 and supressive fire, not lethality. We've expended more rounds per kill in Vietnam than we did in WWII but suppressive fire increased a 1000 times.

  13. #283
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    And another goddam school shooting....

    Nice win NRA...

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  14. #284
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    The curve also increased with the closure of the sanitariums.

    PS A.R. The NRA does not advocate sales of firearms to 16 year olds specifically a .45 semi automatic pistol. So, repackage your emotional response into something productive.
    Last edited by surfgun; 14 Nov 19, at 21:21.

  15. #285
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    I am Canadian and thus have zero say in American affairs. However, talks of banning AR15s don't make sense to me. What makes an AR15 uniquely an AR15 is its action, not the pistol grip, the folding/collapsable stock, bayonet lug, grenade launcher attachement. If you're going to ban the AR15, you will have to ban the AR15 action. The rest are just comestics. There can be an arguement made against the 30 round mag but we have went to war with the 10 round mag.

    Then we can repeat the lessons of the AWB. Study after study stated that the AWB ban had not made an observable difference in mass shootings, primarily again, the weapon of choice is the pistol. However, those firearms that were banned circumvent the ban by altering the comestics. Thumb holes, filing off the bayonet lug and grenade attachment. None of the actions were banned.

    The main freaking problem is that the AR15 and AK47s looks cool. Not that they are more lethal than 12 gauge shotguns with .00 buck. I have absolutely zero problems with Washington banning AR15s and AK47s but ban the friggin actions, not the cosmetics but all that does is to shift to some other firearm that can be made to look cool. And John Wick had already made the pump action 12 gauge looked cool.

    And Eric, you can't be that young that you cannot recall Postal workers going beserk with AK47s. And that's my problem with you singling out AR15s. There are a lot of replacement TATICOOL firearms out there. A lot. You have to come up with a definition that covers them all.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 14 Nov 19, at 22:43.

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