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In Bangalore, Goons Threaten To Skin Australian Man For His Goddess Tattoo

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  • #61
    Cactus,

    When I said the BJP was following the congress, I meant that they were creating loyal constituencies around indigen religious and cultural communities.

    Violence in villages between communities is not a new development in india. It is very common and many cases rarely travel outside the region. Members of the sangh(see below) have always been there and without modern controversies of the visual and print media.

    Sangh means a community or unification. In south india, it is called "sangham" and almost all villages have a local "sangh" which is a socio-cultural org that deals with cultural customs, laws and usually runs a shared resource service. Due to ideological and cultural similarities, the local village sangh indirectly abides to "the sangh" but it is not entirely a teacher-student relationship.

    BJP and Congress politicians in delhi understand what a murder is but their problem is that they are standing outside looking in(as is "the sangh"), with the locals expecting each to take an ideological side. The BJP understands what a murder is and the congress understands what an opportunity is.

    I understand your reference to 70s sikhism with the current situation but I don't agree with it. An incident has to be contained within a region. The govt needs to bite the bullet and come down heavily on sensational journalism or it can print more paper money to rent a ready made police force from a foreign state.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by anil View Post
      Around 2 years ago, almost every national print and electronic media ganged up together in a bizarre and colossal effort to stop the gujarat cm from becoming the pm of india. Though the mission failed miserably, it revealed to watchers around india that the indian population is not influenced by these broadcasters. We now believe that vernacular dailies may hold that influence but not completely sure. Perhaps through a close knit community.
      if anything the media went out of its way to put a mic in front of anybody that had something to say against the previous govt. Media is everybody's mouth piece. The media put Modi in office.

      if you mean there were interests that were determined to keep him out, yes, very active in countries abroad that refused at the time to give him a visa. This is all water under the bridge now though.

      Originally posted by anil View Post
      Sensationalizing all stuff indian with mindless threads from the www will do nothing for "your cause", which I think is plain "trolling". You have a misunderstanding about what it is that your doing. I don't think 3/4th of the non-indians members on this board follow or even open these "india related threads". Not everything is about india. Show some respect to the board and stop spamming the south asia section. It is embarrassing. I can understand if a sexually frustrated teenager does this sort of thing but watching grown adults with wives and daughters is very depressing
      If he did not do it somebody else would have. what is the problem ? evrybody talks about crap in their countries or some other here. What's surprising is how similar it all is :)

      if an Indian does not do it then its people with an agenda to bash India is it, c'mon...

      A foreigner decides to tatoo ie permanently mark himself with a foreign god. Tatoos are not painless. Looks like a decent job. he puts it on his leg. His leg supports him. What is the problem. I was surprised he chose something Indian in the first place. Even proud. This guy likes India. To the point he wants to tatoo himself with an Indian god.

      But nooo, the issue is he chose to put it on his shin. Would anybody say anything if it was on his chest or arm. Doubt it.

      And he gets crap about it in Bangalore of all places...supposedly very liberal cosmopolitan city. At a time when the PM is going out of his way to get the whole world to come visit. The cops get involved. Some opposition BJP twat sees a chance to get his name in the papers. A foreigner is an easy target, he's not going to stick around and fight it out in court. A suitable vehicle to push an agenda with.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Dec 15,, 11:06.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
        I have an issue with the police demanding the guy to write a formal apology instead of actually protecting him. Having said that, the police could have made him write the letter to avoid further escalation as according to some reports there was a politician involved and sadly the police have little control or power over the political class in this country. This is the problem with the open-to-interpretation arbitrary free speech laws that exist in India.
        I suspect if he did not formally apologise the aggrieved party would have lodged a complaint on this 'causing offence' nonsense.

        the apology is a get-out-of-jail card. Free to go. Defuses the situation.

        Its not the skinning bit that is the issue its that somebody can get you locked up because of hurt sentiment (!)

        Naturally the guy protested on his fb page and i agree with him. It does not happen like this elsewhere. Somebody comes and threatens you on some pretext the cops treat you like the trouble maker.

        The fact that these incidents are on the rise under Modi is worrying though. Even if Modi personally doesn't condone these acts, a lot of his party's support comes from these sections of the society. And with him in power these supporters feel empowered to do as they please. I honestly fail to understand Modi's stand on such issues. On one hand we have him travelling the world parading our country as a great destination for business and manufacturing while on the other hand we have these issues getting highlighted more and more in the media. Not sure how this portrayal affects his over-all objective of getting more businesses to shift to India.
        No connection, an opportunist saw a chance and made hay with it.

        Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
        I doubt Modi is a proxy given all those past conflicts you mentioned. It's just the pandering to his "vote bank" by trying not to alienate his core supporters that I think is causing more harm to India's image. Businesses are by and large still optimistic about India's prospects for the time being. Also, he did come out against the lynching so I still have hope!
        its not so much pandering as trying not to get baited at every turn. This was said or happened, what does the PM have to say. crap happens on such a frequent basis somewhere in the country he'd never be able to get on with his work. If he has to say something and things still happen they can portray him as ineffective or not in charge. Since the last PM got framed that way this would be same old again.

        The opposition has their agenda alive right now and they are milking it to the max. its the balance of power we set up. No ruling party can run rough shod.

        Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
        India and Australia can't really be compared though.
        only so long as we can't consistently kick their butts in cricket.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Dec 15,, 11:27.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          Rule of law in its many forms is a big issue for business, as is the perceived desirability of a particular location for employees. Other considerations might be bigger at this stage, but that can change. Stories like this don't help.
          The only rule of law that matters is the govt is not in the future going to shake companies up on some spurious pretext or another. This can happen when laws are vaguely worded. Investors want tightly defined laws. If that's there they'll set up shop anywhere with whomever guarantees it first.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by cataphract View Post
            I get the feeling that the English media in India is on an orchestrated campaign to drum up every communal incident in India today and blame the central govt for it, as if these incidents haven't happened under the previous govts for the past 70 years.
            With the last govt it was constantly about this or that scam. Looks like the media have figured out what sells depending on who is in charge.

            Originally posted by cataphract View Post
            Here is one source for my claims:

            https://factly.in/communal-incidents...n-in-8-states/

            For the record, I think the Modi govt has failed to shut down their whackjobs like Sadhvi Prachi, who are inflaming the current situation.
            Some areas have a history of communal incidents. cities or areas that repeatedly flare up. In a way this causes a selection bias.

            Does not matter who is in charge all parties fish in these waters for what they can get.

            Some characters come out of the wood work when they think a govt that they believe is sympathetic to their cause gets into office. They get a reality check pretty soon though. Only so far and not beyond. we have rules in place and it does not matter who is in charge.

            They will be exceptions but just because a party gets into office does not mean the whole country suddenly becomes more communal. Not possible. Course there is no reasoning this out with people that are afraid and hell bent on telling you see, i told you so !!!
            Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Dec 15,, 12:05.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
              For example even if its Congress in power, Bangalore city itself is solidly in BJP hands as confirmed with the BBMP elections.
              found this result a bit curious given the complaints of lack of progress from the city council. Will go with the people's choice.

              congress got their mayor in though.

              Just for example there were some foreign supermarkets where you could still buy buffalo meat (marked as oxen).
              When I went recently it was all gone, they got a polite visit from the local RSS chief.
              I see beef sold without any problem. I notice the beef section of the menu was covered in one place but its still on sale though.

              and it was on sale right through the BJP's rule in the usual meat markets all over the state.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                I suspect if he did not formally apologise the aggrieved party would have lodged a complaint on this 'causing offence' nonsense.

                the apology is a get-out-of-jail card. Free to go. Defuses the situation.
                Agreed

                Its not the skinning bit that is the issue its that somebody can get you locked up because of hurt sentiment (!)
                This is what we get when people feel they have the right to be offended.

                No connection, an opportunist saw a chance and made hay with it.
                The fact that a person saw an opportunity here to further his political career within the party is an issue herein.

                My point is, irrespective of the fact whether these incidents have risen in frequency (or not) under Modi, they have obviously been under the spot-light lately due to the news media and other vested interests. Something similar happened with the Delhi rape case as all subsequent rapes started to get international attention. Likewise, the current debate on "intolerance" is in vogue so to speak. Fighting incorrect popular perceptions should be very important in this case.

                its not so much pandering as trying not to get baited at every turn. This was said or happened, what does the PM have to say. crap happens on such a frequent basis somewhere in the country he'd never be able to get on with his work. If he has to say something and things still happen they can portray him as ineffective or not in charge. Since the last PM got framed that way this would be same old again.

                The opposition has their agenda alive right now and they are milking it to the max. its the balance of power we set up. No ruling party can run rough shod.
                The opposition/media is able to milk this because the BJP has elements that are susceptible to this 'form of intolerance' and hence are easy targets. IMO gotta reign them in to send a clear message.

                only so long as we can't consistently kick their butts in cricket.
                So a long wait indeed :)
                Last edited by DarthSiddius; 02 Dec 15,, 06:33.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  found this result a bit curious given the complaints of lack of progress from the city council. Will go with the people's choice.

                  congress got their mayor in though.
                  My view is that its a protest vote as Bangalore is a wreck right now. But no use, current BBMP lot are also useless, they just shrug and say no money for projects.
                  The taxes paid by the many MNC corps are disappearing as usual. I pity the poor fools in Whitefield/Varthur, complete horror to commute or live there.

                  I see beef sold without any problem. I notice the beef section of the menu was covered in one place but its still on sale though.

                  and it was on sale right through the BJP's rule in the usual meat markets all over the state.
                  I did see this in Shivajinagar which is heart of muslim area of bangalore, the traders go out of the way to assure people that no cow meat is sold.
                  I agree on the BJP rule statement, I used to find it without issues in various supermarkets back then.
                  Yeddy was very busy stealing land, doing lake encroachment, road 'improvement' and tree cutting scams. He simply did not have time free to do communal things :)
                  For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                    My view is that its a protest vote as Bangalore is a wreck right now.
                    Protest against what. The BJP was in charge of the city council earlier. so its surprising that the incumbent won. Not by a huge margin though. Congress only won in the state in 2012.

                    The only reason i think is the people think the alternatives are far worse.

                    But no use, current BBMP lot are also useless, they just shrug and say no money for projects.
                    The taxes paid by the many MNC corps are disappearing as usual. I pity the poor fools in Whitefield/Varthur, complete horror to commute or live there.
                    Things move at the usual snail's pace. Tender SURE going on taking months to get just a stretch done. Such a lot of wires pipes and whatever to be rearranged.

                    I did see this in Shivajinagar which is heart of muslim area of bangalore, the traders go out of the way to assure people that no cow meat is sold.
                    What is it then ? buffalo tastes different i've not noticed any difference in taste. Steaks & burgers available in the usual places all taste the same.

                    I agree on the BJP rule statement, I used to find it without issues in various supermarkets back then.
                    its available now as it was then. I've not seen any changes. Other than big noises back in 2007 that both lower & upper house passed some bill that never got notified because the governor at the time disagreed.

                    Yeddy was very busy stealing land, doing lake encroachment, road 'improvement' and tree cutting scams. He simply did not have time free to do communal things :)
                    heh, they got him. made him split the BJP, congress won, now yeddy is off the hook. whatever charges made then dropped. Quid pro quo.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Dec 15,, 11:08.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
                      The fact that a person saw an opportunity here to further his political career within the party is an issue herein.
                      The bjp guy was the corporator of the area. Was suprised this could even happen in Konark. Konark has been there since the 80s. Peaceful veg joint which until recently was a student hangout. Then they spiffed it up.

                      My point is, irrespective of the fact whether these incidents have risen in frequency (or not) under Modi, they have obviously been under the spot-light lately due to the news media and other vested interests.
                      Have they really ? is there really such a marked spike in under two years. How to tell.

                      Or does repeatedly talking about it create that impression. people don't trust the BJP and have already gone on the offensive, forcing the BJP to be on the defensive. For some people they just KNOW this is a FACT and to disagree or challenge implies one is blind, out of touch or a BJP aplogist. State the conclusion then pick incidents to support that conclusion.

                      2019 is already in view. if it is so apparently bad now imagine what it will be like by then. They tasted blood in Bihar and think they have a way to beat the BJP. Every state election now is going to follow along the lines of Nitish-Lalu grand coalition. Local parties can align against national parties and keep them out if necessary.

                      Something similar happened with the Delhi rape case as all subsequent rapes started to get international attention. Likewise, the current debate on "intolerance" is in vogue so to speak. Fighting incorrect popular perceptions should be very important in this case.
                      Exactly. in vogue.

                      The opposition/media is able to milk this because the BJP has elements that are susceptible to this 'form of intolerance' and hence are easy targets. IMO gotta reign them in to send a clear message.
                      better for BJP to give these characters enough rope to hang themselves with. Then sideline whomever at the next party meet. otherwise they will say Modi is a dictator and does not support party democracy.

                      Vajpayee played along with the RSS in the beginning and got his way after.
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Dec 15,, 11:36.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        if you mean there were interests that were determined to keep him out, yes, very active in countries abroad that refused at the time to give him a visa.
                        A foreign conspiracy?

                        The media assumed that topics like godra riots, secularism etc connected with the people and went to town. The collective show ended up becoming ridiclously anti-modi and it was made more ridiculous when the verdict completely backfired. That's hardly a secret. Soon after the polls, those teams who participated in it, especially those that had public visibility(thapar, sardesai etc) decided to go off the air voluntarily until they found refugee at headlines today.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        If he did not do it somebody else would have.
                        Who?

                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        what is the problem ?
                        Hijacking the south-asia section with india threads containing more sensational value than substance.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        if an Indian does not do it then its people with an agenda to bash India is it, c'mon...
                        I have never said anywhere in this forum that these threads came with "an agenda" to "bash india". You said that.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        A foreigner decides to tatoo ie permanently mark himself with a foreign god. Tatoos are not painless. Looks like a decent job. he puts it on his leg. His leg supports him. What is the problem. I was surprised he chose something Indian in the first place. Even proud. This guy likes India. To the point he wants to tatoo himself with an Indian god.
                        I don't want to comment on whats wrong and write

                        I do know that this guy must have pushed real buttons(not the tattoo) to attract an angry mob like that. It's more than a tattoo.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge
                        And he gets crap about it in Bangalore of all places...supposedly very liberal cosmopolitan city.
                        Why do you(yes bangalore people particularly) give you own city a narcissist label?

                        We here in mumbai have the whole film industry living here but still find it convenient to call it the zhopad-pati(shanties) capital of india. Likewise, in our woods, bangalore is referred to as the nerd magnet of hindustan.
                        Last edited by anil; 02 Dec 15,, 11:32.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by anil View Post
                          A foreign conspiracy?

                          The media assumed that topics like godra riots, secularism etc connected with the people and went to town. The collective show ended up becoming ridiclously anti-modi and it was made more ridiculous when the verdict completely backfired. That's hardly a secret. Soon after the polls, those teams who participated in it, especially those that had public visibility(thapar, sardesai etc) decided to go off the air voluntarily until they found refugee at headlines today.
                          Not a conspiracy, lobbies of indian descent abroad. It takes local ground work to get countries to refuse him a visa.

                          Who?
                          Check who the TS is for the threads like this over the years. Anybody is free to start one. it makes no difference who does it.

                          Hijacking the south-asia section with india threads containing more sensational value than substance.
                          can say that about threads in other sections as well. Hot topics where everybody has a take on.

                          I have never said anywhere in this forum that these threads came with "an agenda" to "bash india". You said that.
                          You didn't but that is the general sentiment isn't it. Why is India being singled out.

                          I don't want to comment on whats wrong and write

                          I do know that this guy must have pushed real buttons(not the tattoo) to attract an angry mob like that. It's more than a tattoo.
                          What do you think happened. Guy sitting in a restaurant minding his own business has a bunch of people asking him about his tatoo. Does this guy want to make the evening news ? i don't think so.

                          Somebody goes up to him and asks him why he has it. He says because they say you can't do it, he tells them to feck off.... Which is pretty much what i'd have done and have done wherever i've lived and been told off.

                          I see foreigners being bundled off by cops for drunken behaviour some time but Konark does not serve alcohol. Its just a veg restaurant. Last place i'd expect something like this.

                          Why do you(yes bangalore people particularly) give you own city a narcissist label?

                          We here in mumbai have the whole film industry living here but still find it convenient to call it the zhopad-pati(shanties) capital of india. Likewise, in our woods, bangalore is referred to as the nerd magnet of hindustan.
                          Because Bangalore does not have a history for such nonsense. You get the odd few aberrations from time to time.

                          The govt moved major industries here in the 70s for strategic reasons. Over the decades this had the effect of creating a highly educated middle class which attracts more of the same. The place is full of colleges and students. Companies want to setup shop here despite growing infrastructural limitations because they can get the workforce they need. Obama when he talks about education wants Americans to compete with kids from Bangalore & Shanghai. I'm surprised he can even find Bangalore on a map.

                          Had this not happened it would have still been sleepy retirement village as it used to be. There are many locals who wished it stayed that way. They don't like how crowded it has become. I take people around some times that actually grew up here but since emigrated abroad and they can't find their way around any more because its changed so much.

                          in the 40s the population was around 0.5m, its grown to over 8 million now.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 02 Dec 15,, 13:31.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Protest against what. The BJP was in charge of the city council earlier. so its surprising that the incumbent won. Not by a huge margin though. Congress only won in the state in 2012.

                            The only reason i think is the people think the alternatives are far worse.
                            Protest against cong govt behaviour. Earlier it was thought as previous bbmp council was very bad this time cong would have a chance. Bust in 2015 the sentiments went against cong.

                            Things move at the usual snail's pace. Tender SURE going on taking months to get just a stretch done. Such a lot of wires pipes and whatever to be rearranged.
                            Yes it should be renamed to tender scam for sure. As an example vasanthnagar road which was dug up nearly 2 years ago but still in the same situation now.
                            The traffic jams and clouds of dust are epic.

                            What is it then ? buffalo tastes different i've not noticed any difference in taste. Steaks & burgers available in the usual places all taste the same.
                            They always say that its male cattle or oxen only and no cows. Personally i never noticed any taste difference

                            its available now as it was then. I've not seen any changes. Other than big noises back in 2007 that both lower & upper house passed some bill that never got notified because the governor at the time disagreed.
                            I have noticed it as not so freely available. In muslim zones of course everything is as usual.

                            heh, they got him. made him split the BJP, congress won, now yeddy is off the hook. whatever charges made then dropped. Quid pro quo.
                            Hehe yes, as the Gowdas wanted to rule in BJP, he decided If he cant win nobody will win.
                            For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              Had this not happened it would have still been sleepy retirement village as it used to be. There are many locals who wished it stayed that way. They don't like how crowded it has become. I take people around some times that actually grew up here but since emigrated abroad and they can't find their way around any more because its changed so much.
                              in the 40s the population was around 0.5m, its grown to over 8 million now.
                              I feel exactly the same. Imagine how wonderful it would have been if Narayan Murthy settled in Chennai instead, its anyway a metro with better facilities. Work in Chennai full week, relax in beautiful Bangalore of old on the weekend.
                              For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                                Have they really ? is there really such a marked spike in under two years. How to tell.

                                Or does repeatedly talking about it create that impression. people don't trust the BJP and have already gone on the offensive, forcing the BJP to be on the defensive. For some people they just KNOW this is a FACT and to disagree or challenge implies one is blind, out of touch or a BJP aplogist. State the conclusion then pick incidents to support that conclusion.

                                2019 is already in view. if it is so apparently bad now imagine what it will be like by then. They tasted blood in Bihar and think they have a way to beat the BJP. Every state election now is going to follow along the lines of Nitish-Lalu grand coalition. Local parties can align against national parties and keep them out if necessary.
                                This trust deficit is what needs to be addressed. I am willing to concede that I might be coming from a position of bias (mostly due to lack of knowledge). As I don't know much about RSS (the little I know come's across as rather ominous) any party that claims to have RSS as it's mentor will be dealt with scepticism on my part.

                                better for BJP to give these characters enough rope to hang themselves with. Then sideline whomever at the next party meet. otherwise they will say Modi is a dictator and does not support party democracy.

                                Vajpayee played along with the RSS in the beginning and got his way after.
                                This is of-course based on the assumption that the BJP wants these elements to hang themselves. Which could very well be true.

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