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Warships in Lisboa, October 2015

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  • Warships in Lisboa, October 2015

    Lisboa's harbour has had a busy October, regarding docked foreign warships. Right now we have docked here 2 canadian, 1 dane, 1 US and 3 chinese. They were:
    Denmark: Peter Willemoe, Iver Huitfeldt-class FFG.
    RCN: Halifax, Halifax-class FFG and Athabaskan, Iroquois-class DDG.
    PLAN: Jinan, Type 052C-class DDG, Yiyang, Type 054A.
    US: USS Arlington, San Antonio-class LPD.

    Hope everyone is friendly! :D

    All but the US ship were open to visitors. A lot of people were visiting the PLAN ships; to be expected, since they are rare here. I managed to take a few photos of the lot, but could not visit the Canadian or Dane ships... a massive rain storm dropped on me while walking from ship to ship. Since I'm mid-recovery from a flu strike, I decided on a strategy withdrawal...

    Here are the photos I did take. Of particular interest, to me:
    -the chinese 35mm CIWS's striking similarity with the Goalkeeper;
    -the circular VLS on the chinese DDG, visible behind the 100mm gun; each missile has it's own circular hatch. By contrast the FFG's are similar to western models, being square in shape. Perhaps trying diferent ideas to see which works better?
    -the chinese AESA antena are huge, but they seem very low in the hull; by contrast, the dane's are as high as they can be. Won't this cut on range?
    -the Dane FFG carrying 2 76mm (I thought it had only 1); I thought only the italians still carried multiple guns of this caliber!

    Visitors in the chinese ships could walk inside superstructure; not everywhere ofc, but enough to spot a few things. I'm not a naval engineer, but do have some notions; the ships looked impecable, the welds ruler-straight, no rust anywhere, all cables and lines properly tied, the 2 triple ASW torpedo tubes shining (again, no rust or poor paint), the locks and hinges of the side hatches for the tunes also looked properly maintained... everything seemed "ship shaped and squared away". Saddly the hangars were included in the "no visitors" area...

    One question for any veterans: both chinese ships had 2 anchors, one on the centerline, one to port. None to starboard... any ideas why?


    A final note to the USN: when the PLAN has a better visitors policy than the USN, something's amiss... I couldn't even get close enough to take a decent photo of the 4 Sea Stalions parked on the pad. Meanwhile, the chinese alowed everyone in with no more than a 3sec metal sweep, followed by "ok go goodday"... bad PR...

  • #2
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Lisboa's harbour has had a busy October, regarding docked foreign warships. Right now we have docked here 2 canadian, 1 dane, 1 US and 3 chinese. They were:
    Denmark: Peter Willemoe, Iver Huitfeldt-class FFG.
    RCN: Halifax, Halifax-class FFG and Athabaskan, Iroquois-class DDG.
    PLAN: Jinan, Type 052C-class DDG, Yiyang, Type 054A.
    US: USS Arlington, San Antonio-class LPD.

    Hope everyone is friendly! :D

    All but the US ship were open to visitors. A lot of people were visiting the PLAN ships; to be expected, since they are rare here. I managed to take a few photos of the lot, but could not visit the Canadian or Dane ships... a massive rain storm dropped on me while walking from ship to ship. Since I'm mid-recovery from a flu strike, I decided on a strategy withdrawal...

    Here are the photos I did take. Of particular interest, to me:
    -the chinese 35mm CIWS's striking similarity with the Goalkeeper;
    -the circular VLS on the chinese DDG, visible behind the 100mm gun; each missile has it's own circular hatch. By contrast the FFG's are similar to western models, being square in shape. Perhaps trying diferent ideas to see which works better?
    -the chinese AESA antena are huge, but they seem very low in the hull; by contrast, the dane's are as high as they can be. Won't this cut on range?
    -the Dane FFG carrying 2 76mm (I thought it had only 1); I thought only the italians still carried multiple guns of this caliber!

    Visitors in the chinese ships could walk inside superstructure; not everywhere ofc, but enough to spot a few things. I'm not a naval engineer, but do have some notions; the ships looked impecable, the welds ruler-straight, no rust anywhere, all cables and lines properly tied, the 2 triple ASW torpedo tubes shining (again, no rust or poor paint), the locks and hinges of the side hatches for the tunes also looked properly maintained... everything seemed "ship shaped and squared away". Saddly the hangars were included in the "no visitors" area...

    One question for any veterans: both chinese ships had 2 anchors, one on the centerline, one to port. None to starboard... any ideas why?


    A final note to the USN: when the PLAN has a better visitors policy than the USN, something's amiss... I couldn't even get close enough to take a decent photo of the 4 Sea Stalions parked on the pad. Meanwhile, the chinese alowed everyone in with no more than a 3sec metal sweep, followed by "ok go goodday"... bad PR...
    OK, here is this 60 year old man with long hair and a beard, speaking impeccable Portuguese albeit with a Brazilian accent. No problem, right? Those are all accurate descriptions of . . . Me. Now let me aboard that ship and watch me walk away with an assement you can take to war. THAT'S why we don't let anyone aboard. The world changed on 9/11. Take it to the bank.
    Last edited by desertswo; 18 Oct 15,, 18:41.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by desertswo View Post
      OK, here is this 60 year old man with long hair and a beard, speaking impeccable Portuguese albeit with a Brazilian accent. No problem, right? Those are all accurate descriptions of . . . Me. Now let me aboard that ship and watch me walk away with an assement you can take to war. THAT'S why we don't let anyone aboard. The world changed on 9/11. Take it to the bank.
      If all you see are metal passage ways and ladders, and are not allowed anywhere else (closest we saw was the galley)...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
        If all you see are metal passage ways and ladders, and are not allowed anywhere else (closest we saw was the galley)...
        I was once detailed to do such a walk around when Soviet ships visited San Diego back in 1990 (I think) appearing as a civilian. My compatriots and I walked away with a gold mine of info without ever going inside the skin of the ship. Trust me, professionals see things the average civilian, no matter how well read would never notice in a thousand years.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
          If all you see are metal passage ways and ladders, and are not allowed anywhere else (closest we saw was the galley)...
          While you saw P-ways and ladders and wires tied neatly, a trained observer was reading the labels on those distribution boxes in the P-ways. Looking at the size of the wires. Noticing the fire stations. DC stations and a whole host of other things that tell lots about how the ship fights.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
            While you saw P-ways and ladders and wires tied neatly, a trained observer was reading the labels on those distribution boxes in the P-ways. Looking at the size of the wires. Noticing the fire stations. DC stations and a whole host of other things that tell lots about how the ship fights.
            Yeah well... the chinese, canadians and danes weren't afraid. ;)

            So, anyone knows why only 1 anchor on one side?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
              Yeah well... the chinese, canadians and danes weren't afraid. ;)

              So, anyone knows why only 1 anchor on one side?
              He's got a sonar dome. He'll use the one on the side 99% of the time. He'll drop the bow anchor "under foot" if he's concerned that he's dragging anchor.

              Also, being prudent in a post 9/11 world is not the same as cowardice and I frankly resent the notion.
              Last edited by desertswo; 19 Oct 15,, 02:01.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                I was once detailed to do such a walk around when Soviet ships visited San Diego back in 1990 (I think) appearing as a civilian. My compatriots and I walked away with a gold mine of info without ever going inside the skin of the ship. Trust me, professionals see things the average civilian, no matter how well read would never notice in a thousand years.
                Well even his untrained observations were pretty insightful. His descriptions of the squared away hardware contrast with what you saw on those Soviet ships, IIRC

                Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                Also, being prudent in a post 9/11 world is not the same as cowardus and I frankly resent the notion.
                Yeah that irked me a bit as well...prudence and cowardice are two different things.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  Well even his untrained observations were pretty insightful. His descriptions of the squared away hardware contrast with what you saw on those Soviet ships.
                  Respectfully, not really.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    Respectfully, not really.
                    I was thinking about the lack of watertight integrity on the Soviet ships due to dozens of coats of paint vs the neat and clean appearance of the PLAN ships. (Perhaps the neat and clean could betray problems to a trained eye though)
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don't drop it on the sonar .....

                      Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                      Yeah well... the chinese, canadians and danes weren't afraid. ;)

                      So, anyone knows why only 1 anchor on one side?
                      Things to avoid with the anchor....
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        I was thinking about the lack of watertight integrity on the Soviet ships due to dozens of coats of paint vs the neat and clean appearance of the PLAN ships. (Perhaps the neat and clean could betray problems to a trained eye though)
                        Must not allow neat and clean to distract one. When I am at car shows, particularly Fords, I don't pay too much attention to how nice and shiny the car is. I pay attention to whether the paint is correct. Is the engine correct with the data plate. Are the hoses correct. The bolts correct. The wiring correct and so forth. I look for shortcuts.

                        Now on a Japanese ship I'd admire how clean they keep it. On a Chinese ship I would pay attention to damage control stations and equipment to start. You know even if you come aboard the HORNET and look you will find wood timbers still stashed around the ship for bracing not to mention fully equip damage control stations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                          Also, being prudent in a post 9/11 world is not the same as cowardice and I frankly resent the notion.
                          I'm sorry, I had no intention of implying anything, I meant it as a joke. :(

                          I just really wanted an up close look at those Stalions; it's virtually impossible to see them around here...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                            dozens of coats of paint
                            This, and some similar tricks, I can spot. Working on the hardware side of IT gave me some knowlegde of cabling systems, hardware setups, etc. So I can spot bad cabling, poor linkages, poor labling, etc. From seting up datacenters I learning (basics) about welding, structural integrity, etc; so I can spot gross errors. I'm always happy to see properly set up wiring, it's a joy to behold.

                            I was also just now remembering a visit on a russian ship, in the imediate post-fall-of-wall period; can't remember the name/class, just that it was a modern (for the time) ship. My father, who had been at sea severall years, was with me then and he kept spoted problems: poorly coiled ropes stacked left and right, barelly paint-covered rust, bolts that seemed welded or rusted in place... nothing of the sort was even remotely present in the PLAN ships. The shortage of maintenance and cash was obvious: the poor russians were actually selling brochures and toys, for a bargain. I kinda felt sorry for them...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                              This, and some similar tricks, I can spot. Working on the hardware side of IT gave me some knowlegde of cabling systems, hardware setups, etc. So I can spot bad cabling, poor linkages, poor labling, etc. From seting up datacenters I learning (basics) about welding, structural integrity, etc; so I can spot gross errors. I'm always happy to see properly set up wiring, it's a joy to behold.

                              I was also just now remembering a visit on a russian ship, in the imediate post-fall-of-wall period; can't remember the name/class, just that it was a modern (for the time) ship. My father, who had been at sea severall years, was with me then and he kept spoted problems: poorly coiled ropes stacked left and right, barelly paint-covered rust, bolts that seemed welded or rusted in place... nothing of the sort was even remotely present in the PLAN ships. The shortage of maintenance and cash was obvious: the poor russians were actually selling brochures and toys, for a bargain. I kinda felt sorry for them...
                              That's it then. We're all doomed.

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