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  • British army (maybe) getting a new MBT?

    Looks like the british army maybe getting a new MBT. Or maybe the Challenger finally gets upgraded:

    British Army considers new MBT in response to Russia's Armata

    Weren't there some atempts at replacing the gun? Maybe they should team up with Jordan, who's carrying out upgrades on their Challenger 1...

  • #2
    I hear the US Army has something like 6000 Abrams tanks in their inventory, despite only wanting around 2000. They apparently keep buying tanks at the behest of congress when they would prefer to use those funds elsewhere. Perhaps the US could donate a couple thousand to the UK or anyone else in NATO that wants new toys. Are the Europeans ok with DU armor and projectiles?
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 22 Sep 15,, 16:46.

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    • #3
      I doubt they'd go with the M1, tbh. If they didn't choose it before, why go that way now?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
        I doubt they'd go with the M1, tbh. If they didn't choose it before, why go that way now?
        BAE does a lot of work on the Abrams, but I think a Challenger 3 is the most likely outcome.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
          BAE does a lot of work on the Abrams, but I think a Challenger 3 is the most likely outcome.
          You mean a full new vehicle? Budget...

          I see a full upgrade, tbh: new gun, fire control, engine (?), suspension...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
            You mean a full new vehicle? Budget...

            I see a full upgrade, tbh: new gun, fire control, engine (?), suspension...
            More differences than between Golf IV and VII.
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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            • #7
              At the current rate of European defense spending I wouldn't be surprised if this new tank is another CGI rendering.

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              • #8
                Sounds more like a BAE 'wish list' than a real proposal. I mean come on, after taking the axe to defense spending so recently how could the British Government justify an expensive project like that just for the Army? An given the current state of defense spending in Europe who do they think is going to 'buy in' as a partner and give it the necessary economies of scale to make it past even initial development. As for using the Armata as an excuse, that's pretty lame.

                Firstly the Russians, despite all the press releases still haven't worked all the kinks out of the design yet and then they've got to come up with the money they need to build it in significant numbers while at the same time dealing with the other massive obsolescence issues they are face across the board with all their other high end military weapon systems. (Maybe they could do it when oil prices were at their historical peak but not now and not for the foreseeable future.)

                And that's not to mention coming up with a scenario where British armored units go head to head with Russian ones in the absence of the full support from their NATO Allies - as far as I am aware the Armata is not ocean going.
                Last edited by Monash; 23 Sep 15,, 12:06.
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                • #9
                  UK MoD's Army 2020 cut British Army armor down to three brigades. I think that's a pretty clear indication of priorities. Nothing wrong with Challenger 2 anyway. Btw, how likely do you all think that there will be a joint EU project in next gen armor?
                  All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                  -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                    UK MoD's Army 2020 cut British Army armor down to three brigades. I think that's a pretty clear indication of priorities.
                    But still need those 3. And wasn't that issued after the "Armada scare"?

                    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                    Nothing wrong with Challenger 2 anyway.
                    Apart from (at least) an old rifled gun that can't fire the more modern versions of APFSDS, overweight issues...

                    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                    Btw, how likely do you all think that there will be a joint EU project in next gen armor?
                    Doubtfull, tbh. The french are still developing the Leclerc, the germans are transforming the Leopard 2 beyong recognition, and the rest don't have the $$$ or armies to think about a new tank...

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                    • #11
                      Ya know it always seems like the UK has the kit India wants.
                      Our carrier is crap.....the UK has the nifty new QE class.
                      Our air defence vessels are not that great, the UK has the Daring class.
                      Our subs are deathtraps, the UK builds excellent astute classes after a few incidents to start with.

                      It would be great if the UK could build us a 21st century chobham protected challenger III instead of T90 related horror
                      For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bolo121 View Post
                        Ya know it always seems like the UK has the kit India wants.
                        Our carrier is crap.....the UK has the nifty new QE class.
                        Our air defence vessels are not that great, the UK has the Daring class.
                        Our subs are deathtraps, the UK builds excellent astute classes after a few incidents to start with.

                        It would be great if the UK could build us a 21st century chobham protected challenger III instead of T90 related horror
                        Imho, India's problem isn't technology, but systemic corruption... that ruins every program at every level...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                          Apart from (at least) an old rifled gun that can't fire the more modern versions of APFSDS, overweight issues...
                          Sounds like the Brits need to move into the 21st century, and go with the Rheinmetall L55 smooth-bore . . .
                          Last edited by Stitch; 24 Sep 15,, 04:24.
                          "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                          • #14
                            Well…the L7/M68 105mm was such a winner that the Brits are probably reluctant to admit that the Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore is the way to go. Thought the Chinese or Russians had some tank they're developing with a 140mm gun on it.
                            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by S2 View Post
                              Well…the L7/M68 105mm was such a winner that the Brits are probably reluctant to admit that the Rheinmetall L55 smoothbore is the way to go. Thought the Chinese or Russians had some tank they're developing with a 140mm gun on it.
                              Bet you've heard it will be very very cheap and produced en masse.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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