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Thread: British army (maybe) getting a new MBT?

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe we had our batch of M1A1s retrofitted with diesels.
    According to a quick google gas turbines using diesel.


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  2. #32
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    Not much difference between jet fuel and diesel... The decision is probably a logistical one
    Ego Numquam

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    According to a quick google gas turbines using diesel.
    Thought I remembered something about a conversion to diesel.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Not much difference between jet fuel and diesel... The decision is probably a logistical one
    As I recall it was just that, i.e. the Aus Army wanted them to run off the same fuel they used for their other fighting vehicles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Not much difference between jet fuel and diesel... The decision is probably a logistical one
    Isn't diesel cheaper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    As I recall it was just that, i.e. the Aus Army wanted them to run off the same fuel they used for their other fighting vehicles.
    One of the benefits the Abrams gets from using a turbine besides the great power to weight ratio is that you can fuel it with damn near anything that burns. Gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, avgas, thick marine diesel, or even grain alcohol will make that tank go. The downside to the turbine engine, is that it takes a lot of whatever you put in it.

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    1. The US is NOT building new tanks. The issue is REBUILDING of tanks...i.e., strip them down to the hull and do a complete overhaul. And one of the reasons Odierno stated what he did was...sequestration! Tank units are expensive. Light Infantry is cheaper. If Congress is going to force a smaller budget on the Army The Chief is going to tell Congress you are going to lose work in your districts.

    2. The M1s in the budget were not for current units but to placed in OCONUS preposition stocks...we are building more POMCUS sites world wide.

    3. The US military uses a single fuel for all ground and rotary vehicles and aircraft...JP-8. We went away from diesel 20 years ago. All engines which are thought of as diesel are actually multi-fuel. Gasoline is used in non-tactical vehicles (i.e., leased commercial vans & trucks) and, maybe in some older cooking sets. Everything else is JP-8...aviation units use special filtering but its the same stuff which goes into a HMMWV, M1, M2, whatever.

    And while switching to M1s may seem a logistics burden, in the long run it may be cheaper. They are VERY reliable. And that log tail need not go any further back than Kaiserslautern. But I more than understand buying within NATO...that makes sense as well.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
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  8. #38
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    I didnt know VW built tank engines!
    /\ like

    And audi / skoda have also come clean ooops no pun intended , however to get back on track , the tory govt is also buying up the worlds left over stock of jonnie 7s ,, not that we have an army left to use them tho .


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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    /\ like

    And audi / skoda have also come clean ooops no pun intended , however to get back on track , the tory govt is also buying up the worlds left over stock of jonnie 7s ,, not that we have an army left to use them tho .

    Tankie,

    Johnnie 7?

    The only johnny 7 I know is the one on the following clip...which I got for Christmas in 1964!

    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Isn't diesel cheaper?
    Don't actually know, I had a feeling it wasn't. BUT we don't have many of them.... like bugger all, given we do have a lot of diesel stuff sort of makes sense to me.
    Ego Numquam

  11. #41
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Tankie,

    Johnnie 7?

    The only johnny 7 I know is the one on the following clip...which I got for Christmas in 1964!

    Thats the one A/R ,, for peeps who dont know they were a very sought after toy ,,I was making ref to the fact that the cheapskate tories who have decimated the brit army ,,we dont have enough soldiers now to fill wembley stadium ?? so why get a new tank , no theatre to op in , BAOR is kaput , so its stick with what we have n supply what they think we need , hence jonny 7s ,,facetious me huh .


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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    Thats the one A/R ,, for peeps who dont know they were a very sought after toy ,,I was making ref to the fact that the cheapskate tories who have decimated the brit army ,,we dont have enough soldiers now to fill wembley stadium ?? so why get a new tank , no theatre to op in , BAOR is kaput , so its stick with what we have n supply what they think we need , hence jonny 7s ,,facetious me huh .
    Okay...I am not as crazy as I thought.

    But maybe I am...since I agree with you and got the same thought!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

  13. #43
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Isn't diesel cheaper?
    It depends; theoretically, yes, diesel should be cheaper. It is less refined than gasoline (petrol, to you Brits) and other light fuels, like JP4, JP8 and kerosene. But then there is supply & demand; when demand goes up, price goes up, and vice-versa. Also, it's not just the refining of the fuel oil that dictates price; it's also the distribution and storage capacity of any given commodity that contributes to the ultimate price to the consumer (the US military included).
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    Most of all... Taxes.
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  15. #45
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    simpler logistics

    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Isn't diesel cheaper?
    It may be cheaper, but you likely don't burn diesel in your helicopters. As Albany Rifles mentioned, JP8 runs just about everything in the US Army, to include all aviation, trucks, combat vehicles and generators. You can run commercial diesels on JP8 - just tends to burn a bit hot, if I remember correctly.

    My point, is this greatly simplifies logistics. One fuel to haul around and manage. Simpler fuel farms and truck convoys. One problem with our sudden COTS purchases of MRAPs is that some would not use JP8. This was a pain in the butt for the loggies, trying to source and manage a low-density fuel.

    One small note, the mechanics do have to make some adjustments to burn some fuels in an M1 such as commercial gasoline (MOGAS).

    With tanks specifically, the downside to not running diesel is you lose the ability to lay a smoke screen by injecting fuel onto the exhaust. If we ever get into a serious shooting war with an enemy running ATGMs and attack aviation in large numbers, this will be significant. The amount of smoke created is enormous and practically instantaneous, providing significant obscuration and concealment. However, there is no retrofit to do if we find ourselves with access to diesel in the future, other than reconnecting the switch in the driver's compartment (you don't want to inject JP8 into the exhaust - different evaporation or smoke point or some such detail).

    The only real difference for aviation units that I am aware of is closer fuel monitoring/testing and different hose hookups for fueling the helicopters.

    Tankersteve

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