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Thread: Barcelona to fine banks with empty houses

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    What is mine is mine absolutely and if I reject your 'public good' (as you see it) for my 'private good', even if my perception of my own good be mistaken, the state that forces it's ideas over mine is crossing a very dangerous line.
    You may want to copy my words above into Google. They're a quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Have said that, I am not sure what the local government is trying to achieve. Why now ask the banks to rent out the property till they can recover their money. If I was s shareholder that would make me happier than just having empty houses.
    We're talking about Spain. Spain had a giant real estate bubble which collapsed seven years ago. The situation then restabilized over the next five years, and in the last two years (coincidentally exactly the time the apartments were disused...) foreigners have begun investing in the Spanish real estate market again. The banks are holding onto estates - that they acquired in the collapse - in anticipation of prices rising rapidly. And if you want to sell in the near-future, especially for the demolish-and-put-luxury-apartments-there kind of sale you don't want tenants that will be hard to get rid of.

    Here's an article for the context: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aee987b2-0...44feabdc0.html

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    NINJA loans anyone?
    Ahh, but real estate prices were NEVER, NEVER, NEVER meant to go down, remember?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Ahh, but real estate prices were NEVER, NEVER, NEVER meant to go down, remember?
    Huh?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  4. #19
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Huh?
    That's the premise on which those loans were made, before everything came crashing down
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You may want to copy my words above into Google. They're a quote.


    We're talking about Spain. Spain had a giant real estate bubble which collapsed seven years ago. The situation then restabilized over the next five years, and in the last two years (coincidentally exactly the time the apartments were disused...) foreigners have begun investing in the Spanish real estate market again. The banks are holding onto estates - that they acquired in the collapse - in anticipation of prices rising rapidly. And if you want to sell in the near-future, especially for the demolish-and-put-luxury-apartments-there kind of sale you don't want tenants that will be hard to get rid of.

    Here's an article for the context: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aee987b2-0...44feabdc0.html
    The FT link does not go anywhere. What is this "housing crisis" then?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    That's the premise on which those loans were made, before everything came crashing down
    Those who don't know the history, risk to repeat it.
    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sea...e=vBForum_Post
    Last edited by Doktor; 15 Sep 15, at 08:01.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    This is worse then socialism. What happened to I'll do whatever I like with my property?
    I take it you are not a big fan of zoning and real estate law.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I take it you are not a big fan of zoning and real estate law.
    If someone planned there will be a hospital this big and in white, whoever accepts the prerequisits has no right to blame them later. Even more they have to keep it in shape. If there are are no patients, will they put a fine on the hospital?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  9. #24
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    If someone planned there will be a hospital this big and in white, whoever accepts the prerequisits has no right to blame them later. Even more they have to keep it in shape. If there are are no patients, will they put a fine on the hospital?
    I think it's tough to make a direct comparison to hospitals. The local government essentially does not approve of speculation with scarce resources. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, but wanting to stop a bank from buying up a store of houses to speculate is within the domain of government policy.

    I think a better option would be charging a bank for outstanding housing inventory, which is a tax, rather than a civil or criminal fine. But meh. Up to the Spanish what they want to do.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I think it's tough to make a direct comparison to hospitals. The local government essentially does not approve of speculation with scarce resources. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, but wanting to stop a bank from buying up a store of houses to speculate is within the domain of government policy.

    I think a better option would be charging a bank for outstanding housing inventory, which is a tax, rather than a civil or criminal fine. But meh. Up to the Spanish what they want to do.
    I still say that as a shareholder or more importantly as a depositor, I would have a fit if the bank was speculating with my money. The problem with free market systems today is that Execs have found ways and means to avoid action from their key stakeholders.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I think it's tough to make a direct comparison to hospitals. The local government essentially does not approve of speculation with scarce resources. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, but wanting to stop a bank from buying up a store of houses to speculate is within the domain of government policy.

    I think a better option would be charging a bank for outstanding housing inventory, which is a tax, rather than a civil or criminal fine. But meh. Up to the Spanish what they want to do.
    In essence, the banks are very limited where to place their cash. Buying houses is one of the options. Especially in times after bubble burst


    Their housing market imploded. What would happen if Spanish banks say, fine, we can't invest in housing. Let me see who will buy the houses. Is it within government domain to order them to do so?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    In essence, the banks are very limited where to place their cash. Buying houses is one of the options. Especially in times after bubble burst


    Their housing market imploded. What would happen if Spanish banks say, fine, we can't invest in housing. Let me see who will buy the houses. Is it within government domain to order them to do so?
    Dok

    Why are they in business in the first place? A bank's first reponsibility is to their depositors. They are supposed to make credit investments with the deposit money and not buy immovable and illiquid assets.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    You may want to copy my words above into Google. They're a quote.
    Thank you for your advice but your constitution is not mine. My family is already providing for 5 families of refugees from Donbass and are sorting out more accommodation to come on land that I bought personally. This is our Christian and patriotic duty but if any Government tells me or my family we "must" they had better come ready to fight first. In the same way I will not 'give up' any part of Ukraine as it is frankly not mine or my right to do so I cannot give up my family's land by demand for which my ancestors fought and died for centuries. I do not have the right and any Government that tells me I 'must' do this or that with my own property is close to tyranny and sic semper tyrannis. I do not presume to dictate to others, I was told it was rude and obnoxious to do so at school and honestly believe it. I do not expect others to presume upon me in the same good faith. If you are happy with your constitution I am pleased for you but you will not force it on me without us disagreeing.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Dok

    Why are they in business in the first place? A bank's first reponsibility is to their depositors. They are supposed to make credit investments with the deposit money and not buy immovable and illiquid assets.
    Their core business is buying aand selling money. Once there is someone who can't pay, they get something else in return, stocks, houses, cars, whatever both parties agreed to be acceptable guarantee in a what if scenario...

    So, the bank is stuck with somethin else, but money and the gov fines them for not being a good seller on order to reduce the price of the potatoes. See where this goes?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  15. #30
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Their core business is buying aand selling money. Once there is someone who can't pay, they get something else in return, stocks, houses, cars, whatever both parties agreed to be acceptable guarantee in a what if scenario...

    So, the bank is stuck with somethin else, but money and the gov fines them for not being a good seller on order to reduce the price of the potatoes. See where this goes?
    Dok, I am not condoning the actions of the government. I am just saying that the bank seems to be incompeent from the pov of the shareholders and depositors

    I know what a bank does, I was a banker one (smiley face because the damn emoticons don't work)
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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