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  • #16
    Muslims or not,there are plenty of reasons not let them in.The simplest is that it will make a difficult situation and everybody will be radicalized.You say moderates.Remember Rwanda,Bosnia or Kosovo.Everyone turned '' extremist''in no time.
    Long story short.No,they won't pay our pensions .Btw,I am not worried.I have an evolutionary advantage compared with most pc hippies :D
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #17
      Europe is already radicalized. London is being called Londonistan. But, if Europeans don't want them on their lands, then the only solution is to make the ME & Africa Islamist free. How that needs to be done is another matter, and we both know the answer.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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      • #18
        1.Why should we care?
        2.if we care,then we should arm them and let them fight for their countries.In their countries,not ours.
        3.African migration is and will be economic.Too many of them,too few resources.Regardless of politics,this won't change.
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
          Shoot them and spread pictures with 100 bodies lying
          You know, the German plans for an anti-migration-scare media campaign are currently sorta like that. Just without the shooting. And aimed at specifically the Balkans...

          The UK also used a media campaign against Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants two years ago (Germany was considering the same). Didn't really work.

          Originally posted by Oracle View Post
          Europe is already radicalized. London is being called Londonistan.
          London isn't Europe.

          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
          Well,I don't have a problem with tolerance,good life and so forth.I'd say about 40-50 millions should come to Germany alone.
          If we spread those out over the next 10-20 years I have no problem with that. And neither does the rest of Germany.

          60% of Germans agree with me in that we have no problem taking in the current amounts according to current surveys*, and 50% of Germans want to take in more refugees than now. 70% of Germans want Europe to open itself for more legal immigration (77%: more legal immigration to Germany; 86% think we're an immigration country) and 81% additionally want to pour money into source countries to improve economic conditions there (notably in comparison to this one, 62% of Germans reject any debt cuts for Greece, including the current approved aid package).

          * numbers have been turning more in favour over the last couple months, people were a lot more skeptical about capabilities at the beginning of this year.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mihais View Post
            3.African migration is and will be economic.Too many of them,too few resources.Regardless of politics,this won't change.
            This is the argument I make regarding the US and Mexico. If you don't want tons of Mexicans migrating to the US, the solution isn't a big fence at the border, it's to help Mexico get back on its feet so that the people who live there can make ends meet. Most people are perfectly content to stay in their country of birth if they can make a good life there for their family, moving into an alien culture is difficult and not lightly undertaken.

            I can't condemn a man for crossing a border to feed his family any more than I would condemn him for stealing bread, but until conditions are made tolerable in the immigrant's place of origin, the flow of people will continue.

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            • #21
              http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1049274.html (in English, on economic conditions and reasons for the mass exodus from former Yugoslavia and Albania)

              Mexico is a rich country by comparison to some in Europe.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by kato View Post
                http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1049274.html (in English, on economic conditions and reasons for the mass exodus from former Yugoslavia and Albania)

                Mexico is a rich country by comparison to some in Europe.
                Interesting article, thanks.

                Mexico does indeed have the resources to be a prosperous country, but the government can't control its own territory. Drug cartels have grown powerful enough to override government control in several pockets of the country and the result is a power struggle both between opposing cartels and between the cartels and the government and the result is insecurity and chaos for the populace. Until the Mexican government can reestablish its monopoly on violence, it will struggle to solve its economic and political woes.

                I think the overall wealth of a country has less to do with migration patterns than the relative balance between countries in a region. The larger the disparity between neighbors, the greater the incentive to move to the more prosperous area nearby.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kato View Post
                  You know, the German plans for an anti-migration-scare media campaign are currently sorta like that. Just without the shooting. And aimed at specifically the Balkans...

                  The UK also used a media campaign against Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants two years ago (Germany was considering the same). Didn't really work.


                  London isn't Europe.


                  If we spread those out over the next 10-20 years I have no problem with that. And neither does the rest of Germany.

                  60% of Germans agree with me in that we have no problem taking in the current amounts according to current surveys*, and 50% of Germans want to take in more refugees than now. 70% of Germans want Europe to open itself for more legal immigration (77%: more legal immigration to Germany; 86% think we're an immigration country) and 81% additionally want to pour money into source countries to improve economic conditions there (notably in comparison to this one, 62% of Germans reject any debt cuts for Greece, including the current approved aid package).

                  * numbers have been turning more in favour over the last couple months, people were a lot more skeptical about capabilities at the beginning of this year.
                  1.Romanians and Bulgarians are EU citizens,not migrants per se.What happened was an abuse.Again,I have no problem.But people noticed they were crying about our folk,while having no problem taking Africans.
                  2.Let's clarify.For whatever reason Germany wants these guys.Many other countries aren't too enthusiastic.You want them,good luck.
                  As for why do you have those beliefs,you are free to ruin yourselves if it makes you feel you ain't nazis.
                  3.In another generation,eastern europeans will probably be required to play UNPROFOR in a huge Yugoslavia.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    1.Romanians and Bulgarians are EU citizens,not migrants per se. [...] But people noticed they were crying about our folk,while having no problem taking Africans.
                    Frankly, we have more problems with Romanians and Bulgarians than we do with refugees. Mostly because refugees fall into a network of social assistance, refugee camps and so on, while economic migrants from EU countries tend to immediately slip into the grey economy.

                    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    As for why do you have those beliefs,you are free to ruin yourselves if it makes you feel you ain't nazis.
                    Actually, we mostly want people who'll work for us. Someone has to pay my pension when I retire in some 30-odd years, statistically two to three people, and at least one of those will have parents who weren't born in Germany. Not taking in his parents would mean I better start building a house somewhere on the Black Sea coast while it's still cheap...

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                    • #25
                      Make children.
                      Those who know don't speak
                      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                      • #26
                        Few years ago, when I was in Frankfurt I've noticed lack of Turks and Asiatic people and kato's response was Germany paid them to go back home. Same thing happened in the 90s with Roma people from NRW. Germans have a system that works for such people. It worked so far. Will it work in the future? Time will tell.
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by kato View Post
                          60% of Germans agree with me in that we have no problem taking in the current amounts according to current surveys*, and 50% of Germans want to take in more refugees than now. 70% of Germans want Europe to open itself for more legal immigration (77%: more legal immigration to Germany; 86% think we're an immigration country) and 81% additionally want to pour money into source countries to improve economic conditions there (notably in comparison to this one, 62% of Germans reject any debt cuts for Greece, including the current approved aid package).

                          * numbers have been turning more in favour over the last couple months, people were a lot more skeptical about capabilities at the beginning of this year.
                          This is what gives me confidence...

                          And the fact that so many want to come to Europe indicates what should be already obvious, most of this world want what we want, and that's a good thing.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            This is what gives me confidence...

                            And the fact that so many want to come to Europe indicates what should be already obvious, most of this world want what we want, and that's a good thing.
                            One can only hope.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                              This is what gives me confidence...

                              And the fact that so many want to come to Europe indicates what should be already obvious, most of this world want what we want, and that's a good thing.
                              Said Tantalus in the year 380AD.

                              But I understand these will pay kato's pension.Why should they do that instead of simply dumping him in the streets remains to be seen.
                              Still every future employee asks about his $.And every employer asks or should ask what is the benefit for the organization?So,how much money will these guys make us?Given they have 0 skills we can use.
                              Last edited by Mihais; 27 Aug 15,, 06:41.
                              Those who know don't speak
                              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                There is a growing intolerance against Muslims due to radical Islam. But, what went so wrong in Europe? And moreover, those refuges are fleeing the ISIS brutality right (?) for a good life in Europe. Maybe they are the moderates (?).

                                Btw, you don't need guns, your fangs should be enough. :-)
                                It has nothing to do with intolerance, but with the fact that Europe has an historical memory of the last time they were here. Especially in the Balkans and especially in Serbia and Macedonia. This notion is something that US lack, simply because it was never conquered by a Islam. Yeah, they are fleeing to Europe from ISIS but European Muslims are going to ISIS for some head cutting. Does it make sense? It does, to me at least...There is no radical Islam, there are radical and non radical Muslims. Islam in itself is always radical.

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