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Thread: Russia claims new tank invisible to radar/IR

  1. #16
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    reasonable the one may expect it to be more visible to radars due to emission of its own radar which is supposed to detect incomming missiles and projectiles.

    However, the whole new design and conceipt is a serious challenge to existing tanks. To my amature oppinion - if T14 spreads in significant numbers it will make all existing tank fleets obsolete

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    To give the Russians their due, I would expect a number of improvements to be present in a truly new tank design, and I imagine it really does have quite a few bells and whistles beyond what they could do with yet another modernized T-72 variant.

    As far as the claims of radar signature reduction are concerned, I am somewhat conflicted. I can see how the Russians would be quite concerned about the vulnerability of their armor to air attack. Thus putting effort into making their tanks blend in with ground clutter makes quite a bit of sense and is almost certainly a much lower bar to clear than making a fighter that can hide against a background of sky. That said, the US has only just recently come up with a stealth material system for the F-35 that is truly durable enough for an aircraft that doesn't have to be constantly babied. Yet I doubt even a baked in fiber mat would hold up long to the kind of abuse a tank is expected to endure on a regular basis.

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    About the tank's own radar signature, Khalitov said the T-14's hull is coated with special radar-absorbing paint and other materials and appliquйs that make it difficult to be detected.
    source: http://whythef35.blogspot.nl/2013/01/f35-how-stealth-is-done.html

    In short, the four most important aspects of stealth are "shape, shape, shape and materials," to quote Lockheed Martin analyst Denys Overholser, whose pioneering work resulted in the F-117 Nighthawk, the world's first operational stealth warplane.
    If the majority of stealth is determined by shape, then a special radar absorbing paint will only reduce radar signature in a minor way.
    And when you dump the heat somewhere like in a fuel tank for instance eventually you will warm up the complete tank.
    Would not be surprised if all the effects are more easily obtainable by just using the correct camouflage techniques, And maybe new camouflage nets that reduce/shield IR and radar.

    This however does not mean that it will not be a succesfull tank, though.
    And I wouldn't mind riding in one for fun.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post

    However, the whole new design and conceipt is a serious challenge to existing tanks. To my amature oppinion - if T14 spreads in significant numbers it will make all existing tank fleets obsolete
    Long as nobody takes it into urban combat, and it looks like the unmanned turret is relatively under armored.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Watching this video I cringed at how many times those two must have hit their un-helmeted heads on the bulkheads inside.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    Long as nobody takes it into urban combat, and it looks like the unmanned turret is relatively under armored.
    Which is rather odd now that I think about it. After the Russian experiences in Grozny, I would think deficiencies in urban combat would be the primary driver behind any new tank design.

  8. #23
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    Other than force fields, there is no way to have an invulnerable tank. Hell, a 155mm Howitzer will decimate any tank. MOUT is a combined arms affair. Ideally to take a building, you want a two way approach. From the top down (helo insert) and from the ground up (ground force penetration) and hopefully, before the enemy collapses the building onto your axis of approach.
    Chimo

  9. #24
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Which is rather odd now that I think about it. After the Russian experiences in Grozny, I would think deficiencies in urban combat would be the primary driver behind any new tank design.
    The Russian experience in Grozny is the reason they came up with the BMPT "Terminator":

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  10. #25
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Watching the video. Is this really the first Russian tank that can neutral steer?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  11. #26
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    The Russian experience in Grozny is the reason they came up with the BMPT "Terminator":
    But the only country operating it is Kazakhstan. The Russians are going with the T-15 Armata version
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Which is rather odd now that I think about it. After the Russian experiences in Grozny, I would think deficiencies in urban combat would be the primary driver behind any new tank design.
    Nah, Grozny simply drove home the lesson of WWII... tanks don't belong in cities. Russian infantry isn't set up to work with tanks the way the US can. Effective coordination between tanks and infantry in an urban setting takes a hell of a lot of training you simply can't get with a 2 year enlistment. The Russian answer to cities is simple- artillery, lots and lots of artillery. This used to be followed by infantry assaults but recent actions in Georgia and the Ukraine would seem to indicate they have less desire to spend blood to seize ground when new rounds can simply make that ground totally unlivable for anyone.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Watching the video. Is this really the first Russian tank that can neutral steer?
    Shoot, the Germans could do that back in WWII with the Tiger and it's (at the time) revolutionary fully regenerative and continuous Merritt-Brown type transmission, albeit not with as much precision; Wehrmacht training films used to show Tigers and Panthers "turning on their axis".
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

  14. #29
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    The T-14 seems to be closer to a Tank Destroyer with a very well armored hull (though I don't know if the APS can stop APFSDS rounds) but a high profile but lightly protected turret.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Nah, Grozny simply drove home the lesson of WWII... tanks don't belong in cities. Russian infantry isn't set up to work with tanks the way the US can. Effective coordination between tanks and infantry in an urban setting takes a hell of a lot of training you simply can't get with a 2 year enlistment. The Russian answer to cities is simple- artillery, lots and lots of artillery. This used to be followed by infantry assaults but recent actions in Georgia and the Ukraine would seem to indicate they have less desire to spend blood to seize ground when new rounds can simply make that ground totally unlivable for anyone.
    I'm not so sure about the remarks made, because not all cities are created equal.

    Cities with wide open and straight roadways are different from cities riddled with narrow allyways.

    So some cities will be less bad for tanks than others.

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