Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Russia claims new tank invisible to radar/IR

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by snapper View Post
    Nothing was 'reversed' in the Debaltseve fiasco as we, stupidly, were not doing anything. I recall the arguments at the time... "but but Minsk 2...". F*ck Minsk 2 and to hell with Minsk 1 too. May they rot in Merkel and Hollandes graves.
    The Russians showed up with strong forces at your weak point. That's maneuver war.

    Originally posted by snapper View Post
    Then the case remains to be proven.
    You're talking to military men. Waiting for the case to be proven is a disaster in waiting. What we can and should do is to look at the forces in question. The Russians can move. There's no doubt about that. They did it before in Chechnya, Georgia, and now the Ukraines. By the same token, your troops are digging in. Two defensive lines have been built with a 3rd on the way. While prudent, it does not look like the Ukrainians are going to meet the Russians in a tank battle.

    Originally posted by snapper View Post
    And thus we must be more self reliant and integrated within the CEE area. We know this and are taking steps to make it happen. But until these upgrades and adjustments are made it would be cheaper in lives and money for the 'old NATO' members to support us rather than face open war. The British at least understand this.
    Germany was built to handle several hundred thousand men. We're talking 4 deployments of 1000 men each in EE. Not even close.

    Originally posted by snapper View Post
    As in some sort of face off? Not sure if there is any point in that. Personally I would refuse to speak to him. Send Surkov if you want to talk seriously - as they have been doing to meet Vicky Nuland.
    Sure there is. Putin would know a fighter when he sees one.
    Chimo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Your point is deterrence, especially the Baltics. Without the Americans and Germans, can you point to anything that the Russians cannot sweep out of their way in the Baltics?
      Sir,the Polish army as of now is better than the Germans.The Germans have to : a. become reliable again
      and b. start building up forces
      Second thing is the Russians practice the use of nukes for deterrence.It's still an American job to respond to that.
      Third is that your guys who must fight to the end aren't Germans,but locals.Deterring the Russians of today does not mean moving BAOR to Riga,but convincing the Russians they will face Chechnya x 5,with Polish army in support and enough American weapons and ammo to kill 15000 of them.
      The Soldiers Mothers Commitee is now setting the limits to any Russian military endeavour.Is no longer the NKVD stopping detachments.
      We have fallen hard,but they have fallen harder.

      If the US and Brit forces serve a point,is not that one brigade can defeat the Russian army in open battle.But that the western world has a border and crossing it has repercussions.They can still cross it at their own peril.
      Last edited by Mihais; 19 Jun 16,, 07:07.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

      Comment


      • Sara, you are not fighting Russian Army, your army is fighting Russian paras and militias.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • "...The Soldiers Mothers Commitee is now setting the limits to any Russian military endeavour.Is no longer the NKVD stopping detachments.
          We have fallen hard,but they have fallen harder..."


          Mihais,

          However true, that may be the funniest thing I've seen written here in a while.

          Outstanding.
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            Sara, you are not fighting Russian Army, your army is fighting Russian paras and militias.
            Ask the ones in Ukrainians prisons; not what they say. They demand 'Geneva Conventions' etc but of course as Moscow denies their existence (and it's returning Cargo 200 convoys) we have to treat them as common criminals.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              The Russians showed up with strong forces at your weak point. That's maneuver war.
              We have been over Debaltseve; either Horlivka should have been liberated or Debaltseve evacuated. As a stand alone position it was untenable.

              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              You're talking to military men. Waiting for the case to be proven is a disaster in waiting. What we can and should do is to look at the forces in question. The Russians can move. There's no doubt about that. They did it before in Chechnya, Georgia, and now the Ukraines. By the same token, your troops are digging in. Two defensive lines have been built with a 3rd on the way. While prudent, it does not look like the Ukrainians are going to meet the Russians in a tank battle.
              Ukraine is far larger than either Chechnya or Georgia. More room to maneuver. Nor do we plan to meet them toe to toe in some "tank battle". As you say the key is to hit the weak point and hit it hard.

              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Germany was built to handle several hundred thousand men. We're talking 4 deployments of 1000 men each in EE. Not even close.
              So was Poland in the Warsaw Pact. Here is an Anglo German pontoon bridge building exercise during Anakonda - 16;
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RoRypoE0Og Apparently it took 30mins.


              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Sure there is. Putin would know a fighter when he sees one.
              And what do you suppose he sees in Ukraine as opposed to the other allies?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                Ask the ones in Ukrainians prisons; not what they say. They demand 'Geneva Conventions' etc but of course as Moscow denies their existence (and it's returning Cargo 200 convoys) we have to treat them as common criminals.
                How many jet pilots or tank crews among them?
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                  How many jet pilots or tank crews among them?
                  Dok,you have a point.But the Russians never faced modern AT and ADA.Besides,their airforce was never a deciding factor.
                  Syria shows a marked improvement over Georgia,but is still not a force that can take out competent enemy air forces&AD.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    Dok,you have a point.But the Russians never faced modern AT and ADA.Besides,their airforce was never a deciding factor.
                    Syria shows a marked improvement over Georgia,but is still not a force that can take out competent enemy air forces&AD.
                    The point is they only commuted infantry. WRT CEE countries Russian AF will swarm the skies by sheer numbers, same goes with tank columns. This is how they always faught.

                    Thing is they can't defend after Poland and/or your guys, so what happens when they start to be pushed back and can't defend conventionally?
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      We have been over Debaltseve; either Horlivka should have been liberated or Debaltseve evacuated. As a stand alone position it was untenable.
                      Your fall back positions should have been well defended. They weren't. In fact, you had no fall back positions. In fact, you had no reserves. Your strategic and operational plans might have been in shambles because of Minsk 2 but your tactical positions leave much to be desired. There was no security screen and your reccee screen was non-existing. The Russian tank company should have been detected well before they were on you.

                      Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      Ukraine is far larger than either Chechnya or Georgia. More room to maneuver. Nor do we plan to meet them toe to toe in some "tank battle". As you say the key is to hit the weak point and hit it hard.
                      That's a Russian advantage, not yours.

                      Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      So was Poland in the Warsaw Pact. Here is an Anglo German pontoon bridge building exercise during Anakonda - 16;
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RoRypoE0Og Apparently it took 30mins.
                      German. And ANAKONDA-16 was 31,000 troops of which 16,000 were Poles, ie no added support needed. You want to show me how EE can support 200,000 allied troops?

                      Originally posted by snapper View Post
                      And what do you suppose he sees in Ukraine as opposed to the other allies?
                      Poroshenko? A baby wannabe Mafioso.
                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                        Sir,the Polish army as of now is better than the Germans.The Germans have to : a. become reliable again
                        and b. start building up forces
                        They're a hell of a lot stronger than everybody else in EE, including the Georgians and the Ukrainians. And more than a match against anything the Russians can throw across the border.

                        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                        Second thing is the Russians practice the use of nukes for deterrence.It's still an American job to respond to that.
                        Third is that your guys who must fight to the end aren't Germans,but locals.Deterring the Russians of today does not mean moving BAOR to Riga,but convincing the Russians they will face Chechnya x 5,with Polish army in support and enough American weapons and ammo to kill 15000 of them.
                        The Soldiers Mothers Commitee is now setting the limits to any Russian military endeavour.Is no longer the NKVD stopping detachments.
                        We have fallen hard,but they have fallen harder.

                        If the US and Brit forces serve a point,is not that one brigade can defeat the Russian army in open battle.But that the western world has a border and crossing it has repercussions.They can still cross it at their own peril.
                        Punitive expeditions. Wreck the place and go home and for you to clean up.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post

                          Punitive expeditions. Wreck the place and go home and for you to clean up.
                          Sir ,a Bde dies in a few hours.For the sake of argument,the Romanian army dies in 3 days,the Poles in 4.
                          The Russians lose more or less the same.Is not something they can afford.
                          We can.We defend our land and the Russians are out of the country after 2 weeks.Meaning we "win".
                          Wrecking the place means staying long enough plus a good deal of urban combat.
                          Can't see their logic in such a COA.
                          Those who know don't speak
                          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                            Sir ,a Bde dies in a few hours.For the sake of argument,the Romanian army dies in 3 days,the Poles in 4.
                            The Russians lose more or less the same.Is not something they can afford.
                            We can.We defend our land and the Russians are out of the country after 2 weeks.Meaning we "win".
                            Wrecking the place means staying long enough plus a good deal of urban combat.
                            Can't see their logic in such a COA.
                            They have the luxury to lob you conventionally, while nukes-rattling. 10% of their arsenal is still more then all of everyone else sans USA.

                            But, why would they do that in the first place?
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • Ballistic missile defense.

                              As for bombing,it never achieved anything of substance.
                              Money wise,we have the ability to buy the best AD systems.Is a question of political will.
                              Also,in theory we can support their bearded friends.
                              That is however a tit for tat without any objective.
                              Those who know don't speak
                              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                                Ballistic missile defense.
                                Oversaturation

                                As for bombing,it never achieved anything of substance.
                                Flattens GDP.

                                Money wise,we have the ability to buy the best AD systems.Is a question of political will.
                                Americans paid for that. The question is why you didn't?

                                Also,in theory we can support their bearded friends.
                                How wise is that? I assume you talk their soft belly.

                                That is however a tit for tat without any objective.
                                Which begs my previous question - "But, why would they do that in the first place?"
                                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X