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  • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Poland is not going to march into Belarus. In fact, I have a hard time picturing they would come to liberate the Baltics. The closest power that can do it is Germany and even they would be looking to bypass the Baltics to get to Belarus.
    Wrong on that.

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    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
      Wrong on that.
      Care to educate me?
      Chimo

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      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Care to educate me?
        As you said any 'Battle for the Baltics' will be fought in Poland, Belarus and Muscovy and as you will be aware many plans are made for different scenarios. Do you believe the Polish Armed Forces are not party to these plans? If the Baltics have to be liberated then Polish forces will follow NATO orders and this may entail entering Belarus.

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        • Originally posted by snapper View Post
          As you said any 'Battle for the Baltics' will be fought in Poland, Belarus and Muscovy and as you will be aware many plans are made for different scenarios. Do you believe the Polish Armed Forces are not party to these plans? If the Baltics have to be liberated then Polish forces will follow NATO orders and this may entail entering Belarus.
          It would not be under Polish leadership nor even Polish spearheads. At 45,000 men, the Polish Army is way too small to take on entrenched Russian forces in the Baltics, let alone lead the charge into Belarus.

          The Polish army may contribute forces but they would not be the deciding force. That would be Germany ... and they would be following their own battle plans to engage and destroy Russian centres of mass ... which would not be in the Baltics.

          However, your point was

          Originally posted by snapper View Post
          Intermarium.
          This does not include any of NATO's major military powers.
          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 16 Jun 16,, 21:46.
          Chimo

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          • Any potential fighting on Polish soil will be under Polish Command. Your estimates of Polish Armed Forces are well off even now and enlargement to upto 200,000 is planned (militias etc or 'reservists').

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            • Originally posted by snapper View Post
              Any potential fighting on Polish soil will be under Polish Command.
              Do note I said the Baltics and Belarus.

              Originally posted by snapper View Post
              Your estimates of Polish Armed Forces are well off even now and enlargement to upto 200,000 is planned (militias etc or 'reservists').
              90 Days call up.
              Chimo

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              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                Do note I said the Baltics and Belarus.
                If not on Polish soverign territy, forgive me if I misinterpreted.

                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                90 Days call up.
                Not sure off hand about Reservists but some of the 'militias' they are currently to trying to integrate into the Polish forces are 'over enthusiastic' - some say - and much resented by the Professional forces. Doubt it would take those militias 90 days as there is a tradition in Poland for this sort of thing from the occupations.

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                • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  Not sure off hand about Reservists but some of the 'militias' they are currently to trying to integrate into the Polish forces are 'over enthusiastic' - some say - and much resented by the Professional forces. Doubt it would take those militias 90 days as there is a tradition in Poland for this sort of thing from the occupations.
                  Militias? 90 Days is optimistic. Reserves can be ready in 90 Days because they've met NATO standards and that means the Officers as well as the NCMs. Untrained militias who has no ideas about NATO operational procedures; who has not been taught years and years of co-ordination? Who has no idea how to call in an artillery strike, let alone an air strike? Who is not security clear to operate sensitive NATO equipment? SIGSEC and OPSEC. At best, they would be tasked with Military Police duties.

                  The last thing we need is BLUE ON BLUE disasters.
                  Chimo

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                  • Holding ground and freeing professionals are precisely what they're intended for.Also urban defence and guerilla warfare.Thing is,they were self organizing and they would have fought anyway.The Army assigning them officers and instructors and giving them a minimum of standardized training is the best thing to do.
                    As for NATO standards,they won't be met after the first round.We have a general lack of infantry as it is,and the infantry will have to be replaced.It will be these reservists and militiamen and the best we can plan for is having NCO'S and Officers available.

                    As for the German army advancing in Belarus,not going to happen.It is for the Eastern nations to do any real fighting.
                    Those who know don't speak
                    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                    • I'm not worried about them fighting to the last man. I'm worried about them not knowing how the hell to get out of the way. The last thing anyone needs is to kill the last defenders by accident when they're charging the attackers.
                      Chimo

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                      • For those of us playing along on the home version of this game one question for clarity.

                        Where does Kaliningrad enter into this entire equation? Is it a drain on Russia or is it a tremendous thorn in NATO's flank?

                        If you already discussed I apologize...I did not catch it.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

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                        • That Kaliningrad is sovereign Russian territory now is a concern. It probably can't be pre-emptively attacked, even conventionally, without immediately escalating the event.

                          If so, there it sits. With Russian troops easily reinforced. On the flank of anything you do WRT the Baltic states and Poland.

                          That's a real concern.

                          How to turn that, instead, into a Russian burden is maybe what you're asking?

                          All this "what if" talk belies the importance of political decisions made that can deter any such possibility. We need permanent stationing of ground forces sufficiently robust to dissuade Russian meddling. Where they'd go is obvious.

                          The money spent now would be a pittance compared to the cost of even limited regional war.
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                          • Then, it can't be the Americans. It can't be the Canadians. If what Mihas said about the Russians won't start anything until the Americans are busy in the Pacific, then the Russians need to face a foe who would not leave. And do note their biggest innovation, Little Green Men. They're not going to march a column over the border. They're going to start a civil war like they did in the Ukraines. And only come in when we wash our hands of the ordeal.

                            For the Russians to be convinced that there will be war that they cannot win, they need to face a foe who cannot leave because it's their home, Little Green Men or not. For all practical purposes, that means the Germans.
                            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Jun 16,, 16:32.
                            Chimo

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Then, it can't be the Americans. It can't be the Canadians.
                              So NATO is broke? Britain will lead one of the four rotating "robust battalions".

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                              • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                                So NATO is broke? Britain will lead one of the four rotating "robust battalions".
                                Please read what I wrote.

                                For the Russians to be convinced that there will be war that they can't win. They need a foe who can't be distracted by events in the Pacific, who is strong enough to challenge and even overcome the Russians, who isn't leaving, and who don't give a damn about little green men.
                                Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Jun 16,, 16:45.
                                Chimo

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