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Thread: The 2016 US General Election

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    The 2016 US General Election

    Let the games begin!

    I'll kick it off with what will probably be rehashed over and over: Hillary Clinton's e-mails.

    Hillary Clinton's Use Of Personal Email At State Department Raises Questions : The Two-Way : NPR


    Hillary Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State ended in February 2013. Here’s what the whistle-blowing New York Times said happened later in the year:

    =o= In August of 2013, the National Archives and Records Administration issued guidance stating that email records of some senior officials are permanent federal records.

    =o= In September of 2013, NARA issued guidance on personal email use.

    The NYT also buries this gem: "For some historical context," says deputy spokesperson Marie Harf, "Secretary Kerry is the first secretary of state to rely primarily on a state.gov email account."

    Of course, after Wikileaks, everyone was super confident in the security of official e-mail.
    Not.


    From the Washington Post

    Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement Tuesday: “Like secretaries of state before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any Department officials. For government business, she emailed them on their Department accounts, with every expectation they would be retained.” Clinton “immediately said yes” when the State Department asked former secretaries last year for help preserving e-mail records, he said.

    After noting Colin Powell and Karl Rove didn’t use official e-mail addresses, the story goes on to say, “Clinton was not the first secretary of state to use a private account. The State Department said Clinton’s successor as top diplomat, John F. Kerry, is the first secretary to use a standard government e-mail address ending in “’state.gov.’”

    Hillary Clinton used private e-mail for government business at State Dept. - The Washington Post


    The Daily Banter probes a bit deeper –

    “The federal regulations [requiring archiving] went into effect in late November, 2014 when President Obama signed H.R. 1233, modernizing the Federal Records Act of 1950 to include electronic communications. It was signed two years after Clinton stepped down.
    That Story About Hillary Clinton's Private Email Account Isn't as Awful as It Seems - The Daily Banter

    And, even the Wall St. Journal
    “It is unclear whether Mrs. Clinton’s practice ran afoul of federal laws and regulations governing the retention of official records, which have been changing in recent years.”

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    As usual you are shilling, "hey, hey look at the that tree and ignore the forest". The use of a private email matters a whole lot less than the fact that she violated federal law by not archiving all the emails she sent/received relating to her duties as sec state. Those emails do not belong to her, and are not for her to decide what gets turned over.

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    Yippee, interneting time.

    Source: 74 FR 51014, Oct. 2, 2009, unless otherwise noted.
    .................................................. ...
    §1236.22 What are the additional requirements for managing electronic mail records?
    .................................................. ................
    (b) Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.
    et cetera et cetera
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    zraver,

    You just couldn’t resist opening with an insult, could you? Not a single comment about the sources or whether what we now know is in line with the tone of these articles.

    And, surprise, surprise, not a single source of your own.

    (By the way, she did archive her e-mails, which you would know if you’d followed the links. She's handed over something like 50,000 pages . . . of archived e-mails!)

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    They're going to kill that poor woman. [ATTACH]

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    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    2016 election already? Come on....I still have 6 inches of snow outside and I need to install 1200 square feet of nail down 3/4 inch oak. Give me a couple months!

    The Democratic side isn't interesting until someone comes out to challenge Hillary. Right now she's the only game in town. But if the media keeps pounding her, it won't surprise me if major party leaders and donors start reaching out to some other possible contenders. You don't want to go into the 2016 campaign season with voters already exhausted from Clinton exposure.
    Personally I'd rather have Hillary than any of the other potentials. I don't like Biden, I HATE the pseudo-Indian Chief, and Mark Warner isn't running.
    Doesn't matter to me, though, I'm fully comitted to the R side, unless they run Hitler or Stalin.

    Right now the R side has more potential to be interesting, at least for this year. There's a lot of folks lining up to get donors. You've got Cruz, Bush, Walker, Paul...probably some others I'm missing. Interesting bunch. I don't know enough to have a favorite among them, but my impression is that Paul will fizzle out and the more extreme party donors and are going to end up getting Walker the nomination.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    zraver,

    You just couldn’t resist opening with an insult, could you? Not a single comment about the sources or whether what we now know is in line with the tone of these articles.

    And, surprise, surprise, not a single source of your own.

    (By the way, she did archive her e-mails, which you would know if you’d followed the links. She's handed over something like 50,000 pages . . . of archived e-mails!)
    From your sources

    Hillary Rodham Clinton used a private e-mail account for her official government business when she was secretary of state and did not routinely preserve and turn over those e-mails for government records collection, the State Department said Monday.

    Hillary Clinton used private e-mail for government business at State Dept. - The Washington Post

    5) The article confirms that Clinton’s office turned over “55,000 pages of emails” to the State Department. They allegedly didn’t turn over all emails, but 55,000 pages is a lot.

    That Story About Hillary Clinton's Private Email Account Isn't as Awful as It Seems - The Daily Banter

    It was only two months ago, in response to a new State Department effort to comply with federal record-keeping practices, that Mrs. Clinton's advisers reviewed tens of thousands of pages of her personal emails and decided which ones to turn over to the State Department.

    Hillary Clinton's Use Of Personal Email At State Department Raises Questions : The Two-Way : NPR

    Your sources say what I'm saying, so who didn't read them?

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quick run-down on the better-known GOP hopefuls

    Jeb Bush (III)
    Best known for: Stand Your Ground and related killings
    Biggest asset: Family name.
    Biggest handicap: Family name.

    Scott Walker
    Best known for: anti-union stance
    Biggest asset: serving as Wisconsin governor; raising campaign money
    Biggest handicap: “100% pro-life” stance (including in cases of rape and incest); abstinence = sex education; against modern medicine (STDs testing and treatment for teens); anti-contraceptives; anti-gay marriage; and pro-employing crooks (Kevin Kavanaugh, Tim Russell);

    Rand Paul
    Best known for: Tea Party ideology; younger half of the only father-son senator-representative combination in history
    Biggest asset: Has actually read the original sources of some of his beliefs (Ayn Rand, Austrian economists);
    Biggest handicap: “100% pro-life;” 20-year history of helping defeat moderate Republicans; supports “discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce” (yeah, really: he’s against Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964);

    Ted Cruz
    Best known for: Only Canadian-born Latino Tea Partier from a pro-Castro (dad fought for Fidel) / anti-Castro (his aunt fought in the counter-revolution) family who’s running for national office
    Biggest asset: excellent debater; very deep experience bringing politically motivated cases before the Supreme Court (Bush v Gore, DC v Heller, Van Orden v Perry)
    Biggest handicap: Pro-life, except when mother endangered; anti-gay marriage; hyper pro-NRA; proudly proclaims GOP are the party of 47% of the people; birthplace and non-US father raises eligibility questions

    = = = = =

    zraver,

    Yes, that's what the sources say: this isn't a story if she handed over the archives when asked to do so. There may be some question about what wasn't handed over, but that isn't at all related to the original story, is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post

    zraver,

    Yes, that's what the sources say: this isn't a story if she handed over the archives when asked to do so. There may be some question about what wasn't handed over, but that isn't at all related to the original story, is it?
    Clinton (II)
    Best known for- covering for her husband as he sexually abused multiple women, err shady business dealings in Whitewater, err getting fired from the Watergate Investigation for ethics violations, err shady commodities dealings err not rescuing a besieged American Ambassador, err complaining that making ends meet as a millionaire is hard... hard to pick since she has no legislative or executive credits or her own.
    Biggest Asset: A compliant media who will protect her from everything until the Dem Party offers up a new bauble like they did with King Obama I, then they abandoned her.
    Biggest Handicap: Age... Her husband was president 15 years ago. She's collecting social security. By the time the election rolls around, if she wins she will be 70 when she assumes office. 70 is important- we've never elected someone that old to office for their first term.

    The real story is she violated federal law.

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    One has to wonder if she likes being a scapegoat or if she really thinks there is s chance for her to live in the WH again.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Clinton (II)
    Best known for- covering for her husband as he sexually abused multiple women, err shady business dealings in Whitewater, err getting fired from the Watergate Investigation for ethics violations, err shady commodities dealings err not rescuing a besieged American Ambassador, err complaining that making ends meet as a millionaire is hard... hard to pick since she has no legislative or executive credits or her own.
    Biggest Asset: A compliant media who will protect her from everything until the Dem Party offers up a new bauble like they did with King Obama I, then they abandoned her.
    Biggest Handicap: Age... Her husband was president 15 years ago. She's collecting social security. By the time the election rolls around, if she wins she will be 70 when she assumes office. 70 is important- we've never elected someone that old to office for their first term.

    The real story is she violated federal law.
    So, still nothing useful to offer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    So, still nothing useful to offer?
    I'm using your sources and style against you and your support of Hillary. Some would call that very useful. Hillary broke the law when she did not archive her records. Don't forget the State Department was subject to FOIA requests and subpeonas it could not honor because she would not turn over her email records. She didn't find religion until her buddies email got hacked and the world learned of the emails existence. You seem to be of the impressions that whats another scandal, shes a Clinton after all so no big deal. I want someone honorable in office.

    She is corrupt and needs to go away.

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    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Corrupt? You mean, how she negotiated for Secertary of State by agreeing to stop her losing 2008 campaign....?

    Fortunately, I don't support banning adultery, which actually means I support other men sleeping with your wife. They invite me over and I bring a cheerleading section. Because I support it. I'm evil like that, because I vote Republican.
    Last edited by GVChamp; 06 Mar 15, at 15:24.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Corrupt? You mean, how she negotiated for Secertary of State by agreeing to stop her losing 2008 campaign....?

    Fortunately, I don't support banning adultery, which actually means I support other men sleeping with your wife. They invite me over and I bring a cheerleading section. Because I support it. I'm evil like that, because I vote Republican.
    Corrupt- fired from Watergte, missing billing records from the Rose Law Firm, Whitewater, bullying and slut shaming the women her husband abused, shady dealings with cattle futures, her foundation accepting money from foreign governments in what looks like qui pro quo, secret email and servers that violated federal record keeping requirements, stonewalling judicial and FOIA proceedings....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    So, still nothing useful to offer?
    Actually, I found this response very useful and was looking forward to an actual response...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zraver
    From your sources

    Hillary Rodham Clinton used a private e-mail account for her official government business when she was secretary of state and did not routinely preserve and turn over those e-mails for government records collection, the State Department said Monday.

    Hillary Clinton used private e-mail for government business at State Dept. - The Washington Post

    5) The article confirms that Clinton’s office turned over “55,000 pages of emails” to the State Department. They allegedly didn’t turn over all emails, but 55,000 pages is a lot.

    That Story About Hillary Clinton's Private Email Account Isn't as Awful as It Seems - The Daily Banter

    It was only two months ago, in response to a new State Department effort to comply with federal record-keeping practices, that Mrs. Clinton's advisers reviewed tens of thousands of pages of her personal emails and decided which ones to turn over to the State Department.

    Hillary Clinton's Use Of Personal Email At State Department Raises Questions : The Two-Way : NPR

    Your sources say what I'm saying, so who didn't read them?

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