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The 2016 US General Election

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  • so...that was a good demonstration of why you should come prepared to nationally-televised job interviews.

    do or die for donald and donald died.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • ^^^
      Where is the damn Like Button?
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • I don't see it, and the majority of instant polls don't see it either.

        Anecdotally, the various third party, undecided, and crossover voters that I know think Hillary came across as a smug witch. And while Donald definitely looked muddy, he did not come across sexist, or racist.

        They also agreed, unanimously, that Trump had a better grasp of, and won, the policy questions of the night.

        Now I see a lot of Trump-hating, but that's the Facebook and Twitter feed that is mega-progressive.

        It was also unanimously agreed that both looked like they were about 90 years old and were falling asleep at large portions of the debate. Perhaps thinking of Matlock

        Obviously, I am in the tank for Trump, but even if I were undecided, I would not be voting for Hillary after this debate.

        Trump's biggest mistake from a policy perspective was disavowing first use of nuclear weapons. But, politically, he had to do that.

        I would love to question Hillary's policy specifics, but she didn't have any besides saying she would appoint a special prosecutor for trade disputes. Also that she wanted to tax rich people, but since there's not enough money in the top 1% to pay for all her programs, I assume she wants to tax my money, too.
        Last edited by GVChamp; 27 Sep 16,, 14:47.
        "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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        • It was a draw, Hillary came off as Presidential, Trump held his own, atleast going by his low expectations.

          Trump's supporters will likely think their guy won while Hillary's will think that she did. But I doubt that undecided's would have moved decisively after this debate as early polls showed.

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          • GVChamp,

            Anecdotally, the various third party, undecided, and crossover voters that I know think Hillary came across as a smug witch. And while Donald definitely looked muddy, he did not come across sexist, or racist.

            They also agreed, unanimously, that Trump had a better grasp of, and won, the policy questions of the night.
            lol, your anecdotal evidence is busy getting crushed by the tidal wave of insta-polls. hell, even -Frank Luntz- and his focus group is saying Clinton won an overwhelming victory.

            we'll see who's right in a week or so; i expect a 3-4 point bump up for Clinton that should reflect in poll aggregation in a week's time.

            EDIT:

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...69b3019a1e037/
            Last edited by astralis; 27 Sep 16,, 16:16.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • I'm not making an affirmative statement on who "won" the debate. I don't have enough information and historically I am a bad judge on these things (I thought Obama did fine in his first debate with Romney, for instance).

              Just telling you what I heard and saw. Luntz focus group apparently said the big hits are the Tax Returns and the Birther Issue. This is identical to what the undecided voters told me, but their impression was that while Trump was muddy, he doesn't look like the raging racist everyone accuses him of.
              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                I don't see it, and the majority of instant polls don't see it either.

                Anecdotally, the various third party, undecided, and crossover voters that I know think Hillary came across as a smug witch. And while Donald definitely looked muddy, he did not come across sexist, or racist.

                They also agreed, unanimously, that Trump had a better grasp of, and won, the policy questions of the night.

                Now I see a lot of Trump-hating, but that's the Facebook and Twitter feed that is mega-progressive.

                It was also unanimously agreed that both looked like they were about 90 years old and were falling asleep at large portions of the debate. Perhaps thinking of Matlock

                Obviously, I am in the tank for Trump, but even if I were undecided, I would not be voting for Hillary after this debate.

                Trump's biggest mistake from a policy perspective was disavowing first use of nuclear weapons. But, politically, he had to do that.

                I would love to question Hillary's policy specifics, but she didn't have any besides saying she would appoint a special prosecutor for trade disputes. Also that she wanted to tax rich people, but since there's not enough money in the top 1% to pay for all her programs, I assume she wants to tax my money, too.
                That is surely an impassioned defense for a pig in a poke. As if Trump could really care about a peon like you or any of us for that matter. We have nothing that he craves above all else which is either fame to attach to or money to squeeze out of us.

                I couldn't watch it on TV only radio and on radio Trump came off bad.

                edit: it was a microphone conspiracy
                Last edited by tbm3fan; 27 Sep 16,, 16:32.

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                • Like I said, I don't see it. I guess it depends on how much you want to detract for the birther answer, tax returns, and Trump's overall rambling answers (he's a rambler. Just what he does).

                  Were I an undecided voter, I'm seeing:
                  A. Trump does not want to nuke ISIS.
                  B. Trump didn't say anything about a Wall.
                  C. Trump didn't say anything about deporting all Muslims.


                  Where's this crazy racist I was promised?

                  I don't think he came off particularly well. More like a rambling business man. But Hillary came across as a corrupt, compassionless shrew, and I'm not seeing this "policy wonk" side either.
                  "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post

                    Were I an undecided voter, I'm seeing:
                    A. Trump does not want to nuke ISIS.
                    B. Trump didn't say anything about a Wall.
                    C. Trump didn't say anything about deporting all Muslims.


                    Where's this crazy racist I was promised?
                    Watch pretty much every stump speech he's ever given.

                    This man is on the record many times saying all the things you listed above.

                    Seriously, one night of semi-good behavior and suddenly Trump's entire campaign history vanishes?

                    No. Just, no.
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                    • How long is the shelf life on presidential debates' effect on polling?
                      All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                      -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        Watch pretty much every stump speech he's ever given.

                        This man is on the record many times saying all the things you listed above.

                        Seriously, one night of semi-good behavior and suddenly Trump's entire campaign history vanishes?

                        No. Just, no.
                        Can you point me to some proof of trumps racism?

                        And his plan to deport all Muslims?

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                        • Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                          How long is the shelf life on presidential debates' effect on polling?
                          Actually, InExile probably came closest to what the ultimate outcome will be: those that were already voting for Trump think he did a fine job standing up to HRC, and Hillary supporters think she stomped The Donald. Historically, debates haven't really changed the polls all that much, and I don't expect that this debate will be any different; Hillary's numbers might go up a few points, but that will be about it.

                          And the shelf-life (if you will) on this debate will be good until exactly October 9, 2016, which is when the next Presidential Debate will be (and nobody really cares about the VP debate).
                          "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                          • I mean, the debates do move the polls around but they generally peter out by voting day--the 2016 debates are said to be unusually close to the election though, was wondering if there's a historic average the polls to "settle" after the debate.
                            All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                            -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
                              Can you point me to some proof of trumps racism?

                              And his plan to deport all Muslims?
                              My apologies, it's not deport all Muslims, it's a complete ban on them entering the country.

                              The deportation will be of the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, though he waffles back and forth on this.

                              As for Trump's racism, examples abound but here's something something from Fortune.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                                My apologies, it's not deport all Muslims, it's a complete ban on them entering the country.

                                The deportation will be of the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, though he waffles back and forth on this.

                                As for Trump's racism, examples abound but here's something something from Fortune.
                                'until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on'

                                right, so again i'll ask, can you tell me where I can find him wanting to permanently ban Muslim immigration?

                                because there is a huge difference between putting a stop to it for now until we (the gov. whom'evers) are confident in the screening and vetting procedures vs a permanent ban that people seem to like to twist what he is saying into.

                                the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants, good.

                                so we have two racists running for president. I don't see anything good about that.

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